Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:19 am

oca wrote:
illluck wrote:Sure. Would you prefer a malkovich or a game on OGS instead (that way if we are both on we can play at a real-time pace)?

I would prefer a malkovich, as I have plenty of time, but not in one block (other said, I have two children... )

Could you set it up ? I don't know the exact procedure yet...

OGS should work the best in that case as we can set it up to 1 day per move with max time 7 days (i.e. you will generally have a week to make a move, but must on average play at least 1 move per day). It's also just easier to play on it compared to the Malkovich format on the forum (and in fact, it supports Malkovich comments visible to observers).

oca · Post by **oca** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:36 am

illluck wrote:
OGS should work the best in that case as we can set it up to 1 day per move with max time 7 days (i.e. you will generally have a week to make a move, but must on average play at least 1 move per day). It's also just easier to play on it compared to the Malkovich format on the forum (and in fact, it supports Malkovich comments visible to observers).

oh... ok, if it's not real time for the whole game, that would be perfect then...
Just to be sure, OGS is this one right ?
http://online-go.com/games

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:00 pm

EdLee wrote:Hi oca, I think that's another popular discussion.

I wonder if Sensei's already has something about it...
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$$ +---------------------------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . X X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I'm curious: what do people think the above dumpling is worth, approximately,
in terms of the normal star-point handi stones ? It seems less than 9 stones.
(The tengen stone is clearly inefficient. )

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . X X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

My guess is that this is roughly even.

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:30 pm

oca wrote:
illluck wrote:
OGS should work the best in that case as we can set it up to 1 day per move with max time 7 days (i.e. you will generally have a week to make a move, but must on average play at least 1 move per day). It's also just easier to play on it compared to the Malkovich format on the forum (and in fact, it supports Malkovich comments visible to observers).

oh... ok, if it's not real time for the whole game, that would be perfect then...
Just to be sure, OGS is this one right ?
http://online-go.com/games

Yep, exactly it

Feel free to send a challenge (same username - illluck) with the time setting you prefer (I recommend Fischer timing with 7 days max and 1 day increment per move).

oca · Post by **oca** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:41 pm

I'm training but I dont find any illuck
I m ocarnal do you see me ?

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:43 pm

oca wrote:I'm training but I dont find any illuck
I m ocarnal do you see me ?

Challenge sent

Everyone misspells my username (it's with 3 l's) :p

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:46 pm

Game started!

http://online-go.com/game/579811

I'll be making use of the Malkovich log to jot down my thoughts (recommend Oca to do the same), comments from observers are also welcome!

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:21 pm

Bill Spight wrote:My guess is that this is roughly even.

Thanks, Bill.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:37 pm

illluck wrote:Game started!

http://online-go.com/game/579811

I'll be making use of the Malkovich log to jot down my thoughts (recommend Oca to do the same), comments from observers are also welcome!

Watching this game really shows how much I've learned to view white as the stronger player. So confusing. XD

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Thu May 01, 2014 11:26 am

Game has ended. http://online-go.com/game/579811

I made fairly extensive use of the Malkovich log to outline my thoughts around what I believe to be the most interesting areas. I'm at work, but will give a brief overview of the game from my prospective when I'm back home later today

Thanks for the game, Oca, it was interesting. Are you interested in some other configurations?

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 am

illluck wrote:Game has ended. http://online-go.com/game/579811

I made fairly extensive use of the Malkovich log to outline my thoughts around what I believe to be the most interesting areas. I'm at work, but will give a brief overview of the game from my prospective when I'm back home later today

Thanks for the game, Oca, it was interesting. Are you interested in some other configurations?

Thanks for the game Illluck :bow:

, so intensive for me, I really enjoyed it

I didn't posted that much comments on the first game as I was dicovering OGS.
I will definitly post more on the next one.

Maybe we can try your proposition... that's would be a really different starting point...

[edit]go diagram hidden[/edit]

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Thu May 01, 2014 3:21 pm

A bit of my impression of the first game. I suspected at the beginning that the handicap configuration is going to be difficult to apply, and the flow of the game seems to confirm it. Those ten stones surround 2 points of territory, so white has to try to make about 150 points from the influence provided from the strong group if it were to be comparable with a more normal 10-stone handicap configuration.

Another difficulty lies with the fact that about 95% of the value of the stones comes from the influence radiating from the centre, and therefore black has to be very active in making sure that the presence of those ten stones are clearly felt (e.g. through driving opponent groups into it when attacking or connecting own groups to it when being attacked). This places the onus to being mindful of full board considerations and not settling situations too early into white's hands (compared to a more traditional configuration where the more experienced place has to be careful and not settle the position too early, which will make the game very difficult on other areas of the board).

Oca, please let me know if you have any questions or would like any clarification on either the above or any of my comments made during the game.

Any comments or questions from observers would be greatly appreciated

Edit: by the way, yeah, "black" and "white" is quite confusing XD

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Thu May 01, 2014 5:07 pm

I think I read somewhere on senseis that the group in the center is devastating.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Fri May 02, 2014 10:15 am

By the way, the second game is currently in progress at http://online-go.com/game/586484

All comments and questions welcome

oca · Post by **oca** » Sat May 03, 2014 7:17 am

Game#2 just completed... I did a bit better then the first time... but :blackeye:

Big thanks to illluck for taking time to play me, that really challenge me, that's so great :clap:

!
It's time for me to study these two games and read carrfully all of illluck's comments.

@illluck, If it's ok for you, I also would like to try one more game, the standard 9 stones placement, and see how it compare to what we just played.

Life In 19x19

Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

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Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement

Re: Non standard 9 or 10 stones handicap placement