#236 emerus vs Loons

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:42 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm41 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O . . X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:50 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm41 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O . 5 X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . x . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Edit : I misplayed at X, thinking a move in the future. May I change it to the game move?

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:54 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm41 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O 8 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I made my decision to save this group without reading much. I'd hoped to have more aji on the outside than I do in reality. The main thing that I missed is the f12 net. It's a better capture than I expected.

When I changed my mind to cut, I was expecting black to cut as well. I was aiming to make his shape on the outside worse or hoping that he'd give me this result:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm1 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O 3 5 X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Considering that the f12 net gives him more thickness than I expected. It would be insane to play that way.

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:00 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm41 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O 9 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Thanks.

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:05 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm41 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X 0 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:09 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm51 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:12 am

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:24 am

I wonder if :b45:

= (a) is better at :b1:

instead?
Directly at :b1:

is also sente, but B seems thicker this way,
and the extra liberty at (a) matters (for B):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O . a X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:30 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm51 Black: 0 , White: 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 2 . O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Touche! That answers that question - not a blunder. White really wants to resist - but (despite black's horrendous shape) fails.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X 4 6 . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X 1 3 5 . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . 2 . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X 9 7 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . 8 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X 0 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was expecting black to take q9 outright but I can see why he wants to stop white from sliding in. Question is, does he spend another move defending? For some reason, I had this diagram in my mind. :b1:

defends the slide and then takes :b3:

in sente.

captures to clean up ko-aji while it's still sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm1 Black: 0 , White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O 3 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O 5 X O . O X . 1 . . X . . . . | $$ | . 4 . O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It seems like the real game continues to be quite a coup for black.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:39 am

emerus wrote:Touche! That answers that question - not a blunder. White really wants to resist - but (despite black's horrendous shape) fails.
$$W
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O . O O X 4 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X O . O X 1 3 5 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O X X . 2 . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X O O X 9 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O X . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X X 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X 4 6 . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X 1 3 5 . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . 2 . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X 9 7 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . 8 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X 0 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

How about -- still seems good for B:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X 1 4 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . 2 . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:45 am

@Ed:

EdLee wrote:I wonder if = (a) is better at instead?
Directly at is also sente, but B seems thicker this way,
and the extra liberty at (a) matters (for B):
$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . a X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . b O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O . a X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . b O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No, you lose the semeai when white plays at b. Black can't be so greedy. In fact I was wondering if white can omit j18 and extend at b and win the semeai but a non-thorough read says no he loses by 1 liberty that way (and even if you win it if black can capture j17 in sente it might not be so bad for him were there not nasty cuts left on the outside. With j18 white wins it easily.

EdLee wrote:How about -- still seems good for B:
$$W
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O . O O X 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X O . O X 1 4 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O X X . 2 . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X 1 4 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X . 2 . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

That's bad for black as white lives easily. Black wants to humiliate white into a submissive life with k19, white wants to resist and live more efficiently. That's why take the 2 stones is locally sente: capture the two stones at e17 is a better way to live. Of course black could tenuki it to play the very big q9 as white won't e17 yet as too slow, but then white can cut black's wall and start to mess around with all black's bad aji there and if he captures something then he doesn't need to play k19 to live (and if black defends at e17 then white gets 2 moves with his cutting aji and only if he fails to capture something needs to come back to k19 to live.

This is my first feeling for the correct shape to deal with the cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X . 6 . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X O . O X 1 2 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X X 3 5 . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:50 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm51 Black: 0 , White: 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . O . O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:32 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc tenuki $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O . X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . O . O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a , . . . . . X . W . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Loons wrote:I intend to play J4 = (a) as a way of using thickness at a distance, (hopefully).

Of course (a) is a big point, but W has to deal with the :wc:

group probably right now.
Otherwise, if W tenuki, then :b2:

is quite painful for W.
W may take :b2:

himself.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:48 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m51 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O B B W W . W W X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O a X W . W X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . O . O . X W W X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X . X W W X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X W X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

The net result of all the :wc:

stones is W made a few points (W still has to play (a) to kill the 2 :bc:

stones).
Whereas B gained massive thickness and sente to play :b53:

.
Globally, the game seems quite good for B.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:09 am

Uberdude wrote:No, you lose the semeai when white plays at b.

Could you show the best sequence for B and W after :b1:

and

? Thanks.
I probably missed something, but I got B ahead by 2 libs:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O 7 X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 6 X O . X O 4 3 X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X 5 X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 8 . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm11 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . 1 X O 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O X X O . O X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . O . O . X O O X X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O X X X X O O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 2 O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Life In 19x19

#236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons

Re: #236 emerus vs Loons