Just count the score

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Numsgil
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Just count the score

Post by Numsgil »

There's a lot of resources on how to count the score, but usually it's framed for the middle game or end game. Which makes sense; that's when you need to know the score. But counting an unfinished game is difficult, especially if it's close. Is that half point ko that threatens to kill your group necessary to win? Better hope you can count each and every last stone on the board, plus any prisoners, and then account for komi.

So here's some counting practice. To channel Kageyama, anyone who can't count even a finished game has a doubtful future :D Nothing clever going on in these positions, except for the occasional dead group (but it should be obvious what is dead). First who does your gut tell you won? Then try to count to find who actually won, and by how many points. Not all of them are close, but the exact (edit: relative) score matters, so no handwavy W+xteen.

For prisoners, :b7: means 7 black stones are white's prisoners.

Correct count is in the hide tags (but I may have transcribed wrong, so take them with a grain of salt if you keep counting something different).

Position 1

Black got everything he wanted, and white failed to make sabaki. Should white just resign gracefully?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 0.5, prisoners :w3: :b6:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . O O O O O O O O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X X O X O X O X X X X X . . |
$$ | O O O X X . . X X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | O X X X . X X . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X O O X X . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X O O . O . O O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O O X . . . . O X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | O O . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O X O . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . O O X X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


W+0.5


Position 2

Such a messy board! How can I do a proper count if you can't even keep things tidy.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 6.5, prisoners: :b12:, :w6:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O . O O X X . . . . X X X . |
$$ | O O O O O X O . O O X . X X X O O X X |
$$ | X O X X O X O O . O . X O O O . . O X |
$$ | X X X X X X X X O O . X O O . O O . O |
$$ | . X O X O O O X X O X X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O X X O X X O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O X O X X . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O O X . . X . X O . O , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X X X . . . X O O X O O O O O |
$$ | X O X O X O . X . X O . . O X O X X O |
$$ | O O O O O X X . X X O O O O X X X X X |
$$ | . . X O O X O X O X O O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O O O O X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . X X O X . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O X . X O X X X O . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . X X O O X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . O O O O O X . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


W+13.5


Position 3

White's corner is huge! Does black have enough to counter that?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 0.5, prisoners: :b10:, :w7:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . X X X O . . . O X X X X O . . O O O |
$$ | . . X O . O . . O O O X O O O O O X O |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . O X X X O . X X X X |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O O X . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O . . . O X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X O O O X X X O . O X . X |
$$ | X . . X X X X X O X X X O O O . X X O |
$$ | O X X X O X X . X . . X X O X X X O O |
$$ | O O O O O . O X . . . . O X X X O O . |
$$ | O O X X O O O X . , . X X . . X O . . |
$$ | O X X . X O X X . . . . O X X O O O . |
$$ | X . X X X O X O X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O X O . O X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O X . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . O X X O O . . O . . . |
$$ | X . X O X O O O O O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


W+0.5


Position 4

Dame and dumplings everywhere

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 0.5 prisoners: :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X . X X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . O O X . . X X O X O O O O |
$$ | . . O X O . . . O X . X O O X X X X O |
$$ | O O X X O . . . O . X O O X . . . . X |
$$ | O X X . O O O O . X X O X . X . X X X |
$$ | X X O O O X X O . O X X X X . X O X O |
$$ | . X O X O X X X O O X X O X X O O O O |
$$ | . X X X O O . X X O O X O X O O . O O |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X X O . O O O O X O O |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O X O O O O O X X X O |
$$ | . X O O . X X O O X O X X X X X X X O |
$$ | . . X O O . X X O X O O O X O X X X X |
$$ | . X X X X X X O O X X X O X O O O O X |
$$ | X . . . X O O O X X O . X X X O . O O |
$$ | O X X X O O X O X X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | O O O O . O X X . . X . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O X . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


W+3.50


Position 5

Lots of dead stones here, but don't let them distract you.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 6.5 prisoners: :b2: :w6:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X . . . . . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . . , X . . X X X X . X |
$$ | . X X X O X . . . . X X . X . X X X O |
$$ | . . X O O O X . . X O O X . X O O O O |
$$ | . . X O X X X X O X X O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O X O O X X X O O . O O O . O O |
$$ | . O O O X O X O X . X O . . . . O X O |
$$ | . X X O . O . O X O X O . O . O O X X |
$$ | . X O . O . O O O X X X O . O X X X . |
$$ | . O O . . O . O X . . X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . O X O X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X . O X X X X O X X . |
$$ | . O . O O O X X . . X O X O X X X X . |
$$ | . O X X X . O O X X . O X O O O X O . |
$$ | . X X . O . . O X X X O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O X O O . O X X O X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . O . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


B+15.5
Last edited by Numsgil on Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Abyssinica
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Re: Just count the score

Post by Abyssinica »

Score 1:
Black:125
White:126.5
W+1.5


I think I took 2-3 minutes. I'll try to get to the rest of them later.
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DrStraw
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Re: Just count the score

Post by DrStraw »

I disagree with position 2
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Re: Just count the score

Post by Uberdude »

DrStraw wrote:I disagree with position 2

I don't.
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Re: Just count the score

Post by Numsgil »

Abyssinica wrote:Score 1:
Black:125
White:126.5
W+1.5


I think I took 2-3 minutes. I'll try to get to the rest of them later.


Close. Try recounting and see if you get a different number. I usually have to count 3 to 5 times before I actually get the same number twice :D
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Re: Just count the score

Post by Aidoneus »

I think that I took 2 minutes to get W + 12.5 for the second game. Then 10 minutes to create the position in MFoG to get W + 13.5. So, maybe it's time for a new prescription. :scratch:
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Re: Just count the score

Post by DrStraw »

Uberdude wrote:
DrStraw wrote:I disagree with position 2

I don't.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 6.5, prisoners: ,
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | a a a a a a a a a a O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | b b O O O O O b O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | b O b b b O b O O X X . . . . X X X . |
$$ | O O O O O X O b O O X . X X X O O X X |
$$ | X O X X O X O O b O . X O O O e e O X |
$$ | X X X X X X X X O O . X O O d O O d O |
$$ | . X O X O O O X X O X X X O d e e e e |
$$ | . X O O O c O X X O X X O X d e e e e |
$$ | . X O c O O X O X X . X O d d f f f f |
$$ | . X O X O O X . . X . X O d O f f f f |
$$ | X X X O X X X . . . X O O X O O O O O |
$$ | X O X O X O . X . X O d d O X O X X O |
$$ | O O O O O X X . X X O O O O X X X X X |
$$ | c c X O O X O X O X O O X O X . . . . |
$$ | c c X c c O O X O O O O X X O O X . . |
$$ | c c O O O O . X X O X . X X X , X . . |
$$ | d O O O X O X . X O X X X O . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . X X O O X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . O O O O O X . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White has 10 points each labeled a through e and 8 points labeled f. That is 57 points. Plus 5 captured stones on the board for another 10 points. Total 68.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 6.5, prisoners: ,
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X a a a a a a |
$$ | . . O O O O O . O O O X X b b b a a a |
$$ | . O . . . O . O O X X b b b b X X X a |
$$ | O O O O O X O . O O X b X X X O O X X |
$$ | X O X X O X O O . O . X O O O . . O X |
$$ | X X X X X X X X O O . X O O . O O . O |
$$ | c X O X O O O X X O X X X O . . . . . |
$$ | c X O O O . O X X O X X O X . . . . . |
$$ | c X O . O O X O X X b X O . . . . . . |
$$ | c X O X O O X c c X b X O . O , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X X X c c c X O O X O O O O O |
$$ | X O X O X O d X c X O . . O X O X X O |
$$ | O O O O O X X d X X O O O O X X X X X |
$$ | . . X O O X O X O X O O X O X e e e e |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O O O O X X O O X e e |
$$ | . . O O O O . X X O X . X X X d X e e |
$$ | . O O O X O X d X O X X X O d X f e e |
$$ | O O X O X X d X X O O X O X X d f f f |
$$ | . X X X X d d d X . O O O O O X f f f |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Black has 10 points each labeled a through e and 7 points labeled f. That is 57 points. Plus he also has 5 captured stones on the board for another 10 points. Total 67.

One the board it is W+1. Black has 12 captures and White has 6 captures plus komi of 6.5. That is 1.5 point win to white.
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Re: Just count the score

Post by Numsgil »

DrStraw wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
DrStraw wrote:I disagree with position 2

I don't.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 6.5, prisoners: ,
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | a a a a a a a a a a O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | b b O O O O O b O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | b O b b b O b O O X X . . . . X X X . |
$$ | O O O O O X O b O O X . X X X O O X X |
$$ | X O X X O X O O b O . X O O O e e O X |
$$ | X X X X X X X X O O . X O O d O O d O |
$$ | . X O X O O O X X O X X X O d e e e e |
$$ | . X O O O c O X X O X X O X d e e e e |
$$ | . X O c O O X O X X . X O d d f f f f |
$$ | . X O X O O X . . X . X O d O f f f f |
$$ | X X X O X X X . . . X O O X O O O O O |
$$ | X O X O X O . X . X O d d O X O X X O |
$$ | O O O O O X X . X X O O O O X X X X X |
$$ | c c X O O X O X O X O O X O X . . . . |
$$ | c c X c c O O X O O O O X X O O X . . |
$$ | c c O O O O . X X O X . X X X , X . . |
$$ | d O O O X O X . X O X X X O . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . X X O O X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . O O O O O X . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White has 10 points each labeled a through e and 8 points labeled f. That is 57 points. Plus 5 captured stones on the board for another 10 points. Total 68.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Komi: 6.5, prisoners: ,
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X a a a a a a |
$$ | . . O O O O O . O O O X X b b b a a a |
$$ | . O . . . O . O O X X b b b b X X X a |
$$ | O O O O O X O . O O X b X X X O O X X |
$$ | X O X X O X O O . O . X O O O . . O X |
$$ | X X X X X X X X O O . X O O . O O . O |
$$ | c X O X O O O X X O X X X O . . . . . |
$$ | c X O O O . O X X O X X O X . . . . . |
$$ | c X O . O O X O X X b X O . . . . . . |
$$ | c X O X O O X c c X b X O . O , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X X X c c c X O O X O O O O O |
$$ | X O X O X O d X c X O . . O X O X X O |
$$ | O O O O O X X d X X O O O O X X X X X |
$$ | . . X O O X O X O X O O X O X e e e e |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O O O O X X O O X e e |
$$ | . . O O O O . X X O X . X X X d X e e |
$$ | . O O O X O X d X O X X X O d X f e e |
$$ | O O X O X X d X X O O X O X X d f f f |
$$ | . X X X X d d d X . O O O O O X f f f |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Black has 10 points each labeled a through e and 7 points labeled f. That is 57 points. Plus he also has 5 captured stones on the board for another 10 points. Total 67.

One the board it is W+1. Black has 12 captures and White has 6 captures plus komi of 6.5. That is 1.5 point win to white.


Sorry, I can see how the prisoners are confusing. You have it backwards. Black has 6 captures and White has 12 captures.

I was trying to mimic seeing stones on the side of the board, but it's easy to be mistaken and read it as :b7: means B+7.
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Re: Just count the score

Post by Aidoneus »

I thought that :b12: meant 12 Black stones have been captured. :-?
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Re: Just count the score

Post by DrStraw »

Numsgil wrote:Sorry, I can see how the prisoners are confusing. You have it backwards. Black has 6 captures and White has 12 captures.

I was trying to mimic seeing stones on the side of the board, but it's easy to be mistaken and read it as :b7: means B+7.


Ah, I see now. Yes, that is how I read it. Yours probably is a more natural reading now I come to think of it.
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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