#238: iseijin vs Marcus

Marcus
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . 9 O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now he needs to play Q18 and (after I play O18) one other move to live in the corner, with 6 points in gote life. Once we're settled up here I need to decide what's biggest. Three candidates: R7, H3, C16. I also like C8/C9, but I haven't finished evaluating that area. D4 looks gote for W (at least, it looks like it to me), so I'm less inclined to play E5 without considering other options.

I have to be careful not to out-think myself and get too clever. I'm happy with my play so far ...
iseijin
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This corner is now a shape known as L+1. White owes a move, otherwise I kill the corner.
iseijin
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Making life.
Marcus
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . 3 . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I'll slide here first and see how he responds. No need to rush things.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Marcus wrote:I think I can be happy here so far
Hmm, :b21: = (a) seemed slow, and a miss — the turn :b1: is sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . . 1 O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
And :b27: (B jumped at :w2: ) is wrong shape for the same reason; B should turn solidly at :b1:.
In the real game, B is left with a cut at o16.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W a . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . b X 1 . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
About :b23: = (a):
Marcus wrote:The painful truth is that I don't know what to do against this probe ( :wc: = :w22: ). D4 = (a) seems slack
I have the opposite feeling: either :b1: or descend to (b) seems more severe than the hane (a).
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm31
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . 3 . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus wrote:I think I'll slide here first
I wonder if B should reply locally with :b1:
it's too painful for W to allow the :black: (a) turn.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
iseijin
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I only looked at the left side / upper left side, as that place seemed urgent, and the proverb says 'play urgent moves before big ones'.
I didn't want to play on the 3-3, as the territory/influence of those 4 white stones would be very easily reducable.
I thought about separating the D10 stone from the C14/B16 stones, but then I realized that the B16 stones could easily make 2 eyes with 1 move on the 3-3 and then what would I have? An attack on a single high stone and myself having 2 weak groups?
So I thought that when I still would play the 3-3, that he probably should reinforce and connect his stones afterwards, giving me sente, so I thought about playing 3-3 again.
I couldn't find anything more appealing to me.
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yay! Someone is observing!

I'll be interested to know what Ed has to say at the end of this game. I'm sure I've missed some good ideas already ...

No reason not to keep going with my overall plan. White has initiative now, and can play where they wish.
iseijin
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 6 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wanted to take the last big spot and thought of N4. But it seems relatively open to invasion and black can approach the formation with H3, digging under my stones, if I dont' defend. And if I do he still can do things to my 'territory'. So I dismissed that one and thought of :w36: It takes away black's approach and invites black to invade, which hopefully is good for me. I'm very unsure about this move, as it's very close to black's strength and somewhat overconcentrated, I'd say, but still I wanna try it.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm31
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
iseijin wrote:the proverb says 'play urgent moves before big ones'.
Yes, urgent before big. I wonder if :w1: is bigger --
if :b2: at (a), then :w3: ponnuki in sente at (b); and B still has a weakness at (c):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . a . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X b . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
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Alright ... I still want to get R7 sometime soon, but I also want to make sure my corner can still get out into the center (don't get surrounded, right?) ... so, I'll finally extend here. White has 3 stones floating at C5 now and won't make much territory with them. His bottom still ahs a couple invasion points at M3 and J3, if I need them (I hope not to need them, but who knows?).
iseijin
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Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . 9 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the point in my games where I am more lost than I'd like to be. Big points have mostly been played, and an overall plan should be forming. I'm not very good at plans.

It seems to me that this is a good time to jump in here. I have space enough to wreak havoc on the bottom, and it's about time I started to reduce/invade this area.
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