#238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post Reply
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 3 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Are ... are there eyes here for White, somewhere? All these floating stones ...
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Uberdude »

@Marcus

Are you trying to kill white? What chance do you think there is of that? Or just attack for profit? If so where is the profit? Did you consider any other ways to attack?
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Instead of :b73: , how about:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B W resists with :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O 3 X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X 1 O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 2 4 5 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Variation: W connects with :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O 2 X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X 1 O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 3 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
iseijin
Dies with sente
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:39 am
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . 4 O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I need a stabilizing move here. Else he'll cut through my positino too easily.
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Uberdude »

@Ed

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B W resists with :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . 9 . . 8 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . 7 . O 3 X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X 1 O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 2 4 5 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


6 is tesuji to save the stones (but still w has problems e.g 7-8-9).
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . 5 . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Uberdude
I could not find any outright (easy) killing attack. I thought about cutting around G5/F6/G7 and trying to swallow at least a piece of White's group. Similarly, I looked at J6/J7 and could not find a sequence I liked. That being said, looking at the board today, it feels like my descent at E2 erased any White profit on the bottom here anyways, and my previous move now looks rather odd to me (likely a waste of a move and worse; forcing White to fix some weakness here).


I don't think I gave J6 enough thought last move. White only has a very tentative connection everywhere. :b73: fixed things a bit for White,I think, making it a mistake. I think J6 has a better feel, and I have answers for most expected moves. J8 might be a bit dangerous, and there are several branches after I answer that peep. I need to see what he does before I make further plans.
iseijin
Dies with sente
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:39 am
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X 7 X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here's the peep. Now, which area will he shore up? Where is his second eye? Do I even know what I'm doing anymore? :blackeye:
iseijin
Dies with sente
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:39 am
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 8 . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 8 . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X 9 O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Where will he defend? I know I owe more explanation here, but honestly I'm probing (poorly) for weakness.
iseijin
Dies with sente
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:39 am
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by iseijin »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . 0 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . O 1 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had thought I could ignore this, but on further reading, I need to defend. Sadly, I'm not sure whether it's a good idea for me to continue this fight, but I'm going to. The outcome is far from clear to me yet.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Hmm, empty triangle. Important to reduce that W lib ?
How about :b1: instead ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . 1 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
illluck
Lives in sente
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:07 am
Rank: OGS 2d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Has thanked: 736 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by illluck »

Another possibility:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . 1 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Post by Uberdude »

@Marcus:

Did you think about any other ways to defend?
Post Reply