OCA's log

[EdLee]

Hi oca, your son drew those stones very passionately.

[EdLee]

well I'm not sure...
- Because black get to much influence if is not answred
- Because the black can kill the corner (by playing E3? or F2 ?, I still need to check that ...)

Hi oca,

That is precisely the question: what is the exact result if W ignores ?
What is the exact sequence ?

[oca]

well I'm not sure...
- Because black get to much influence if is not answred
- Because the black can kill the corner (by playing E3? or F2 ?, I still need to check that ...)

Hi oca,

That is precisely the question: what is the exact result if W ignores ?
What is the exact sequence ?

Hi Edlee, I think white can live in the corner in a very small shape,and black will get a lot of inluence...

Here are my tries...

(;GM[1]FF[4]AP[Drago:4.21]CA[UTF-8]SZ[19]AB[dd][dj][cp][dp][ep][fp][hq]AW[pd][bq][cq][dq][fq][pq]
PL[W]B[fp];W[tt];B[er];W[eq];B[fr];W[dr];B[gq]
(;W[br];B[cs];W[ds];B[bs];W[bp];B[bo]
;W[ap]C[white lives in that case])
(;W[bs];B[ar])
(;W[cs];B[br];W[ar];B[bs]))

[EdLee]

Hi oca, at E2 is not right.

[oca]

Hi oca, at E2 is not right.

Here are a few more tries, but white can live in each of them ...
Is there a way for black to kill the corner ?

(;GM[1]FF[4]AP[Drago:4.21]CA[UTF-8]SZ[19]AB[dd][dj][cp][dp][ep][fp][hq]AW[pd][bq][cq][dq][fq][pq]PL[W]B[fp];W[tt]
(;B[eq];W[er]
(;B[fr]
(;W[ds]C[white lives])
(;W[dr]C[white lives]))
(;B[dr];W[fr];B[cr]
;W[br]C[white lives])
(;B[cr]
(;W[dr];B[br];W[ar];B[fr]
;W[bs]C[white lives])
(;W[br];B[fr]
;W[es]C[white lives])))
(;B[fr];W[er];B[eq]
;W[es]C[white lives])
(;B[dr];W[er];B[eq];W[fr];B[cr]
;W[br]C[white lives])
(;B[cr];W[br];B[eq];W[er];B[fr]
;W[dr]C[white lives]))

[EdLee]

Hi oca, cutting off W's F3 stone, and capturing it
with a ponnuki, is a very good result for B.
Think about it, and look at the board — W jumps to F3
but you capture the F3 stone! The ponnuki gives you massive power.
You want to kill the corner, too ??!!

This is why your in your game is sente.

[Charles Matthews]

I do not know when it started to be so wrong for me, but the sequence to seems not to be the better choice...

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4712

Right. At 17 the area around Q7 seems important for both sides. The bottom right White corner has at least two weak points: Q3, and the large knight's move is thin, could be cut across.

Consider also where you want to play in the top right. Both O14 and R15 are very nice points for Black. P13 is aggressive, but it doesn't obviously gain points.

[oca]

You want to kill the corner, too ??!!

Of course I want
No, seriously, I just wanted to be sure that I didn't missed something.

@Charles :

Hi, thanks for your comments, I also think my P13 wasn't that great...

[oca]

Here is one that went fine for me, I commented the first half of the game.
I will comment the second half when I will have a bit more time...

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4854

[Charles Matthews]

Here is one that went fine for me, I commented the first half of the game.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4854

Wrong perception: at B16 would be taking territory while attacking.

My style would be to take the shape point at O14 right now. It leaves the top right corner open at 3-3. If Black comes in on the top side, you may get to attack the left side group. Why force the opponent to make a good corner?

Small, since the left side is already strong.

To , the sense of direction is wrong for both players. How about at O14, which has turned out to be a strategic pivot?

OK, 90% play or shodan level. The key issue would seem to be how to get a stone round K9.

Aargh, fight the ko! H4 might make a good threat.

Try O2 first.

To White 100, oh dear, the corner is unsettled, and White has bad shape in the wall.

[oca]

Hi Charles,

Thanks for your comments,
Wrong perception: at B16 would be taking territory while attacking.
==> ok

$$Wcm24
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 3 O . O .
$$ | . X O 2 . . .
$$ | . 4 X X . . .
$$ | . . a . X . .
$$ | . X . X O . .
$$ | . O X X O . .
$$ | . O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm24
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 3 O . O .
$$ | . X O 2 . . .
$$ | . 4 X X . . .
$$ | . . a . X . .
$$ | . X . X O . .
$$ | . O X X O . .
$$ | . O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

and then I can approach the top right corner. and later maybe something to do with "a"...


My style would be to take the shape point at O14 right now. It leaves the top right corner open at 3-3. If Black comes in on the top side, you may get to attack the left side group. Why force the opponent to make a good corner?

==> ok, after I was thinking the same "houps... to late to do something with that corner..."


To , the sense of direction is wrong for both players. How about at O14, which has turned out to be a strategic pivot?
==> ok

OK, 90% play or shodan level. The key issue would seem to be how to get a stone round K9.
==> ok

Aargh, fight the ko! H4 might make a good threat.
==> do you mean ?

Try O2 first.
==> great ! totally missed that one !

To White 100, oh dear, the corner is unsettled, and White has bad shape in the wall.
==> Ok for the corner unsettled, but I don't see the bad shape in the wall ?

[Charles Matthews]

Hi Charles,

Thanks for your comments,
Wrong perception: at B16 would be taking territory while attacking.
==> ok

$$Wcm24
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 3 O . O .
$$ | . X O 2 . . .
$$ | . 4 X X . . .
$$ | . . a . X . .
$$ | . X . X O . .
$$ | . O X X O . .
$$ | . O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm24
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 3 O . O .
$$ | . X O 2 . . .
$$ | . 4 X X . . .
$$ | . . a . X . .
$$ | . X . X O . .
$$ | . O X X O . .
$$ | . O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

and then I can approach the top right corner. and later maybe something to do with "a"...

Oh, there is such a bad play! Without it, Black later has a chance to play at B17 in the corner, a well-known endgame trick. So Black should just connect, if anything here. But connecting is too slow.

Aargh, fight the ko! H4 might make a good threat.
==> do you mean ?

Yes, sorry, my mistake.

[Charles Matthews]

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4854

To White 100, oh dear, the corner is unsettled, and White has bad shape in the wall.
==> Ok for the corner unsettled, but I don't see the bad shape in the wall ?

is just weak - should be at P10.

These "pushing battles" are difficult, and nobody explains them.

is weak again: must follow up hane at the head of three stones with hane at P10.

- again, must be hane.

After three serious underplays by Black, P13 and then O14 by Black is still probably possible. Black P13, White at O13 and then Black O12 to cut is also a serious possibility, after which the cutting points below could be troublesome. The really unpleasant thing is that fighting around this wall might make the three Black stones floating in the centre useful, instead of useless.

I think I prefer W100 as an attack in the centre, e.g. H9. Keep Black busy, and hope to finish walling off on the right later.

[oca]

Ok, thank you i see the weakness now.

[oca]

(I'm black, to many weird moves... 23 is terrific I think and should be at K16...)

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4877

(I'm white, I'm happy of this one)

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4876