#239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:54 pm

@Uberdude

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:58 pm

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:02 pm

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:06 pm

Blimey, are there any non-dan players here? I feel like a minnow with some of these rather awesome people commenting.

FWIW, and at the risk of confirming myself the fool rather than leaving it in doubt, I was going to put a bigger post at the end of the fuseki explaining why I didn't do some of the things I didn't do. Is there anyone following to whom this might be of interest?

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:15 pm

topazg wrote:Blimey, are there any non-dan players here? I feel like a minnow with some of these rather awesome people commenting.

FWIW, and at the risk of confirming myself the fool rather than leaving it in doubt, I was going to put a bigger post at the end of the fuseki explaining why I didn't do some of the things I didn't do. Is there anyone following to whom this might be of interest?

Yeah, me! I've been lurking about, reading all the dan-talk. Very interesting to go with an interesting game.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:28 pm

topazg wrote:Blimey, are there any non-dan players here? I feel like a minnow with some of these rather awesome people commenting.

FWIW, and at the risk of confirming myself the fool rather than leaving it in doubt, I was going to put a bigger post at the end of the fuseki explaining why I didn't do some of the things I didn't do. Is there anyone following to whom this might be of interest?

Oh, sure! That would be interesting.

We are having fun speculating about things that you don't see every day. Like the 3 space pincer by Black and the 4-4, 5-3 combination by White. So of course your thoughts would be of interest.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:59 pm

I'm also lurking about, though I will likely have more to say (and more foolishness to expose) during the middle game. I'm not great with fuseki (or most other parts of the game, actually :mrgreen:

).

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:15 pm

Oh, fair enough, will do then

And for those interested, here's a sneak peak preview of my plans:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b a O . . 7 . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Not actually sure whether :w17:

makes Black at "a" too appealing - if I don't like the way it looks, I may play "b" instead.... and maybe Black "c" needs to be prevented first. Some things to think about anyway. I may instead look at playing the following move instead, even if Black approaches as above:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . a , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I'm not actually convinced that :w14:

is joseki if Black plays here, or whether it's too close to :w13:

, but if Black plays "a" it's fairly close to the lines I was hoping to play in the first diagram, and it ... well, if it's not joseki, it should be, it's too interesting not to be, so there!

Further thoughts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Not sure about this idea, but "a", which can be an annoying shape point, doesn't appear to have too bad aji, so it's possible, and avoids anything too toothpastey if Black counter pincers (which I'm less concerned about with Black's potentially flat shape along the top).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 9 O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , 6 7 . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This looks fairly common and playable with respect to local shape, but I think I'd be happy here as White.

SoDesuNe · Post by **SoDesuNe** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:23 am

I'm really glad the game sparks some interest and I'm looking forward to read all your comments when it finishes =) I expect there will be some very enlightening moments : D

Future shenanigans:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 4 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I pretty much decided that I will not play this line.
Although my group is not what I consider weak, it is not particulary stable either. So I always have to look out for possible forcing attacking plays, that can influence other groups (like the one I plan to make in the bottom left).

It also gives White the corner and I begin to question whether that is necessary.
Since I thought, White would take the Shimari at :w12:

, it now seems that with this line I give White the corner and let him also play a checking extension against my newly formed group.

So I'm back at thinking about playing 3*4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I guess 'a' to 'c' are the most likely candidates for White. Though I still consider 'a' good for Black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'a' - 1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . a b . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . c e W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Again, not sure about the Joseki but I guess it makes sense for White to connect to the marked stone. :b21:

seems like good shape and then I guess White should extend at the top ('b' seems too far?).

I have to read 'c' to 'e' though and see whether this brings any danger to my group.

Omitting :b21:

and playing 'a' (maybe 'b' is safer) myself seems also plausible. I still can live by jumping into the corner, when White blocks the side.
I guess I would play like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'a' - 2 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , 9 . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I would heavily favour Black here, but yeah, positional judgement is not my forte =D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'a' - 3 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If White tries to steal Sente with :w18:

there will never be much a framework and White is simply cut into pieces.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 Choice 'a' - 4 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . 4 . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 5 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Taking Sente with :w20:

is safer. But it also really enlargens my corner.
I would still favour Black here but I guess this is playable for White (I don't like it for White though ; ) ).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'b' - 1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 6 O . . a 8 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . c . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 7 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . b 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I guess 'a' instead of :w20:

is prefered nowadays by professionals? Or was that another Joseki/position? ^^
If White changes :w20:

to a play in the corner, I still think I can make shape easily by playing 'b' and 'c' looks good for later.

I still feel fine like this. The corner is nicely shared, my group is stable and I opened up a lot of possibilities on the left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'c' - 1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 6 O . . . 8 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . b . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If it goes like this, my shape seems a lot weaker. I'm wondering whether I need another defensive move here. I feel that I don't need to and the only move that comes to me is 'a', which looks very bad anyway.
Then again, a White Keima at 'b' really hurts...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'c' - 2 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Playing

does not seem to work well. The marked stone helps out :w14:

(which is also keeps a nice distance), so I can't really threaten to attack either side. If White next plays something like :w16:

then I have a floating group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'c' - 3 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , 4 . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I guess, I could play this, when I'm really desperate =D It feels a bit do-or-die though.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Choice 'c' - 4 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X 1 O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 5 3 X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Or more like die-or-die... Nah, I probably play :b19:

at

and will not go down so easily but still...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Choice 'c' - 5 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 6 O . . . 8 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . a . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So, I guess I'm stuck with this then? Or maybe 'a' as in "The opponent's key point is your own".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . 3 . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Or maybe something completely different? =D

A contest of frameworks but White has many more options to react to :b13:

... The other thing is, by playing like this I turn the marked white stone into a really good move. Maybe it already was a really good move and I'm the only one having problems seeing that but with the sequence above there is no doubt of it at all.

I feel that this makes the game too straightforward and thus boring.

Yet another thing: I mentioned quite often that I think the center is not important in this game. And like this it becomes very important. I should work very hard not to contradict myself : D

SoDesuNe · Post by **SoDesuNe** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:31 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:31 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

SoDesuNe · Post by **SoDesuNe** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:42 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , 6 . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:17 pm

Don't think I need to hide this.

It seems neither player considered this one for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Not saying I think it is better or worse, but it's certainly simpler

(makes a/b miai).

SoDesuNe · Post by **SoDesuNe** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:20 pm

Looks very interesting, indeed! =)

I try to remember it for the next time : D

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:58 pm

@Uberdude ...... d'oh, just how obvious was that! I'm glad Black didn't play it, it would have been most annoying to me

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , 6 7 . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The only move in my opinion. Anything else feels insipid.

Sort of hoping for something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 3 O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X 1 . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 4 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

But maybe

better at

now I have a left side stone already?

Was originally worried about this direction of play being points-light .. playing the 3-3 would help somewhat, but seems less consistent with the moyo-ish ideas going on. Isn't Go interesting

Life In 19x19

#239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg