skydyr
Oza
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by skydyr Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:14 am
EdLee wrote:
jeromie wrote: C13 is really, really big, but it leaves me over concentrated
Hmm, I think C13 is bigger.
Both players seem to have some misunderstanding of what over-concentrated means.
Uberdude
Judan
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by Uberdude Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:05 am
I think
is ok, if c13 black 2nd line hane connect in sente then double approach looks playable. The lower side is kind of flat and boring with 11 and p6 making it easier to flatten, but the corner is big. And if black now c13 then white c16 and if black connects white can play the big point on the top side (and if black doesn't connect it didn't gain much and in fact white got to strengthen his corner).
awef
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Post
by awef Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:06 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
jeromie
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by jeromie Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:50 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Black's last move seems like the wrong extension to make use of his corner enclosure. That leaves me with several big points to decide between:
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc It's hard to tell which of these is biggest. a is a nice extension from my wall, but I don't think it's necessary yet. My wall has enough influence to make it hard for black to make much territory I. That area even if he moves again. d takes away a big point from black (an extension in the right direction) but doesn't work too well with my own stones for making territory. b gets the whole upper left corner if I've read things out correctly. c encloses a big lower left corner. e has been explained earlier.
I played b for a few reasons: I have good influence in the upper left but I'm short on solid territory. If he lets me play c as well, his group on the left becomes vulnerable to a later attack. I won't be able to kill it, but I can probably make profit. I think I can get enough stones into the center to keep black from making much territory there, but I need to have some solid territory of my own to make that a viable strategy.
awef
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Post
by awef Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:04 am
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
I figure something like:
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komiWhite gets a big corner but I think I get sente to take a big point next.
jeromie
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by jeromie Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:27 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Here is where things get interesting. Clearly, we've both read this situation differently. I think I can kill black no matter what he does from here, though there are several moves that represent potential pitfalls. The variations are complex enough that I can't show them all, but here's how I will respond to black's most likely follow up moves:
$$Wc19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc19 $$Wc19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc19 (Notably, I don't think B12 works here.)
Uberdude
Judan
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by Uberdude Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:30 pm
Strange thoughts from white. More sensible, and I would expect a 15k to get this right:
$$Wc19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc19 $$Wc19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc19 So of course black should connect (or hanging connection is another possibility, gives white atari but in some situations a stone at a is more useful that white's atari, here it does allow this double hane but loses some endgame).
$$Wc19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc19 $$cm25 Hanging connection pros and cons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm25 Hanging connection pros and cons
jeromie
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by jeromie Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:12 pm
awef
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by awef Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:32 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
I guess it doesn't make sense for white to have played
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komisince that only strengthens me. So I don't get to end in sente, I'm scared of this
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
jeromie
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by jeromie Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:24 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
EdLee
Honinbo
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by EdLee Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:24 pm
(
For beginners. )
Both
and
are common mistakes at these levels.
Instead of
the tiger's mouth --
$$m21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$m21-- B should simply connect solidly:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
EdLee
Honinbo
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by EdLee Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:30 pm
(
For beginners. )
Instead of
connecting directly --
$$m21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$m21-- W should first atari, before the connect:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
awef
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by awef Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:26 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
I was expecting
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komiThe bottom is the biggest area, that's the main motivation behind my move. It'll give me an extra stone in the area, too, if white ever tries sealing in my bottom right corner.
Edit: Probably should have thought about my move a little bit harder, I think I could've exchanged 27 for 28 here before playing in the bottom.
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
jeromie
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by jeromie Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:34 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
awef
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by awef Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:51 pm
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Thought about playing here
$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm21 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komibut I don't think white has to respond. I played where I did because top is widest spot on the board. I strengthened my upper right corner so I think I can handle a fight if white plays something like
$$cm29 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm29 awef(B) v jeromie(W) 6.5 komi
is ok, if c13 black 2nd line hane connect in sente then double approach looks playable. The lower side is kind of flat and boring with 11 and p6 making it easier to flatten, but the corner is big. And if black now c13 then white c16 and if black connects white can play the big point on the top side (and if black doesn't connect it didn't gain much and in fact white got to strengthen his corner).
and 
are common mistakes at these levels.