#231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

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Bill Spight
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Bill Spight »

This is a FWIW comment.

:bc: is Joaz's contemplated move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . B . 7 . 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Now, I thought about that move for :b48:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


The reason being that :w49: is joseki, and it would be pleasant to push White around a little bit. It also clarifies the situation.

But, especially in a four stone game, why should White clarify the situation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


A play like :w49: here is a distinct possibility.

So I thought that Joaz was wise to take his profit with :b48:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm48
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . O . 3 . O . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 6 . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Here :b50: complicates things, but why? White is generally the one to seek complications in a handicap game. And why now, when Black avoided complications on his previous move?

Besides, :w51: is predictable. Now what? Black has to worry about his position on the top left side. If :b52:, White can slide in with :w53:. ( :b52: here with the open skirt is not good. Don't try this at home, kids. ;))

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm48
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . O . . . O . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 4 . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Here :b50: stakes a claim on the corner and attacks the White stones on the top side. :w51: is standard. Now :b52: makes territory while attacking. White should have no trouble making sabaki with his stones on the left side, but Black can aim at solidifying his remaining advantage.

I can't say that :b50: at H-17 would be a mistake, but it would complicate things when Black has a clear plan to decide the game in his favor.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . 0 . 7 . 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


I can't find anything that looks bad for me immediately.
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Post by EdLee »

Let the fireworks begin. :clap:
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I posted my move quickly with minimal comments so that my opponent could see it before bedtime in the British isles.

Now that it is posted, I'll add more comments.

I am not happy with the speed of my game. On at least six separate occasions, I made moves that were reinforcing or defensive. I could reeinforce myself into a loss by doing that.

I figure that all of my groups are strong - except the one just played, of course - and he now has three groups that have to watch their step. A fight should favor me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . X O . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X B . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


The alternative was this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 2 . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 4 . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , a . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


That is another 10 points net for him, and if I don't kill the three(four) stones on the left, I'm running out of places to make more territory. Whereas if he gets a play around 'a', he could slide into the lead.
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


My move is almost forced. Black has two main lines after this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 6 2 O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 8 X 3 4 W . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . 9 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


The move at 3 looks like the potentially most entertaining option. In the line showns (there are others) Black's two stones become a target, so my 3 stone group becomes strong. I may take one in a ladder (at the marked point) or immediately launch an attack against the two stones. White is doing reasonably well here.

A simpler move for black is one I showed earlier:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 4 . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]




Alternatively, black could a line I showed in an earlier diagram. This is more peaceful. Next I have a choiuce of moves, including the marked stones. Saving the stone at the top may leave me a little thin, though. So a possible continutation is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X X . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X 3 . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 5 . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

NExt I will try to fina a moyo-building move. If black omits 4, his top group will become small and possibly even thin. SO maybe black should play at 3 himself.... I'll plan more if this line comes up.
Last edited by drmwc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Hi drmwc,
drmwc wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 6 2 O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 8 X 3 4 W . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . 9 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 4 . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Alternatively, black could play at a,
Where is (a) ? Seems to be missing from the diagrams ?
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by drmwc »

Ed

It was a typo. I've edited so hopefully it now makes sense.
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Post by EdLee »

drmwc, Thanks. :)
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Bill Spight »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 4 . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


My prediction: Play will go :w1: (already played) - :w5:. But then Black will not play :b6:.
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Visualize whirled peas.

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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

My first reflex is to play 52 like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


But then he plays the simple tobi, I have to tobi too, and he is getting a moyo:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Maybe 5 is at a?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . 3 . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . a . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Besides that, it seems disrespectful to my most recently played stone at H17.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:... I have to tobi too...


That may be presumptuous.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 4 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


It is very difficult to kill that stone without giving black the upper left corner.
And :b54: really puts a dent in the moyo plans that I'm sure my opponent must be plotting. :twisted:

I must read a lot. So...

My next move may take a few days.
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Post by EdLee »

How about attack ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51
$$ -------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Bill Spight »

No prediction now. :oops:
The Adkins Principle:
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— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

For observers:
Let's take stock of the board. I'll look at territory, strong/weak groups, and influence. I think that those are the things that matter most as we start divvying up the center.

POINTS: White has about 10 in the upper left, 15 in the lower left, and about 15 on the right, for a total of about 40 points.
Black has 20 in the upper right, 25 in the lower right, and about 15 on the left, for a total of about 60 points.
Black is ahead by 20 points.

WEAK GROUPS: When looking at weak groups, white has two, black has one.

INFLUENCE: I counted the closest stones to the center. There are twenty of them. Eight are his, twelve are mine. Even if my counting is a bit off here, I'm stil ahead.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Stones with influence.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . W . B . W . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . , . . . B . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . , . . . . W , O . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . B B . B B B X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


In summary, I'm ahead by 20 points, I've got fewer weak groups, and I've got about 50% more influence affecting the center where most of the remaining points are. The only thing that I don't have is sente.

Let's give my opponent the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he picks the best move on the board - one that gains twenty points, and improves his influence to equal mine. Assuming that such a move is indeed possible, he still has two weak groups to my one, and I will have sente.

It seems that he has to save the three stragglers over on the left. If I get them - probably with something like the picket line shown below, I get another 50 points. Even if he gets every remaining point possible in the center, he is not going to get the 70 points needed to catch up.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . B . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . B . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


So maybe he engages in a running fight to save them - and succeeds - and the center of the board becomes a snake pit of intertwined groups where almost everything is dame. That's fine by me: I'm ahead by twenty when it starts, and will probably still be ahead by a few when it ends.

Overall, this is looking good for me.

( I haven't mentoned yose here. I haven't attempted to count it, but I see no glaring weaknesses for either side. The only possiblity on is the upper right where my R12 stone still has some aji. And that one uncertainty favors me. )

So, it still looks good for me. The end of the game is getting closer, the temperature is dropping, and opportunities are becoming fewer. Tick...tick...tick...
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