the willow way

Create a study plan, track your progress and hold yourself accountable.
skydyr
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

TIM82 wrote:Just some musings on the bottom right corner upto black :b23: . Not sure of these, take with a grain of salt.


Regarding :b23: I thought this was great for black too, but I was told by AGA 5 and 6 dans that black should extend farther, because with the hane white's group isn't really thick yet, and white would be happy enough to get the checking extension without feeling too overconcentrated at this point. Of course, white proceeded to make this move look good with the approach immediately afterwards. If black goes one point more, the two space jump checking extension looks much more severe, and the weakness around the captured stone means that black doesn't have to worry much if white tries to invade between the corner and side stones.

As for the hane, I wanted to prevent white from building the right side too easily while climbing a line higher if he started pushing. White owes the move in the lower left at some point, so I saw the right side and the double approach as somewhat miai.
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

I haven't posted the rest of my congress games as yet, though I do intend to get around to that. In the meanwhile, I did record this game I played at the club last night that I enjoyed immensely. My opponent has spent some time in the past looking at older chinese games, and so our games often feature cross-hoshi openings, the ogeima response to 4-4 small knight approaches, and other such moves. L17, F5, and E6 strike me as moves evoking that theme in this game. I decided to change up the usual fuseki with matching 3-4 stones this time, however:



We weren't sure that the top right trade was actually good for white, since it took two moves to resolve. :w90: seems to be the problem move, as white could have taken the upper left corner in sente at any time. White 102 at N8 may or may not have been too deep. We discussed giving up the 4 black stones in exchange for a better reduction, as well as a bunch of other ways to fight afterwards without deciding things clearly.
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Abyssinica
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Re: the willow way

Post by Abyssinica »

skydyr wrote:Here's my second game, with some commentary, but it was not my finest hour (or three):




Is the comment on black 13 supposed to be humourous? I'm just going to quote Yoda Norimoto from one of my favourite books, "Vital points and skillful finesse for sabaki"

"What white fears is black pushing through at 1 and cutting at 3; however, black 1 and 3 are unreasonable. Since the ladder is unfavourable for black, 1 and 3 are even more unreasonable."

/shrug

No, I don't understand jokes.
skydyr
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

Abyssinica wrote:
skydyr wrote:Here's my second game, with some commentary, but it was not my finest hour (or three):




Is the comment on black 13 supposed to be humourous? I'm just going to quote Yoda Norimoto from one of my favourite books, "Vital points and skillful finesse for sabaki"

"What white fears is black pushing through at 1 and cutting at 3; however, black 1 and 3 are unreasonable. Since the ladder is unfavourable for black, 1 and 3 are even more unreasonable."

/shrug

No, I don't understand jokes.


Well, if you play it right, and you have the ladder, that joseki ends fairly poorly for white, with something or the other captured and a solid position for black. However, the variations are far from simple, so assuming I'll punish correctly might be a bit presumptuous.
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Re: the willow way

Post by mitsun »

The second game at move 195 looks like a tesuji problem, "B to capture two stones and live with territory". I wonder how many tesuji we amateurs blissfully overlook in all of our games :)
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

mitsun wrote:The second game at move 195 looks like a tesuji problem, "B to capture two stones and live with territory". I wonder how many tesuji we amateurs blissfully overlook in all of our games :)


Hehe. As soon as I saw your statement I looked back at it and it just popped out. If only I'd seen it as easily then.
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

I've been meaning to post the rest of my open games, which I will at some point, but in the meanwhile, I have a game I'd like commentary on. As white, I took a lot of territory, including all 4 corners in the beginning, and then proceeded to deal with my opponent's moyo. I feel like I fell behind somewhere in the late opening, though, and was fighting desperately to catch back up, until I caught a lucky break. The game was played as a correspondence game, and I am currently about 1k AGA, give or take a rank.

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Re: the willow way

Post by Charles Matthews »

skydyr wrote:I've been meaning to post the rest of my open games, which I will at some point, but in the meanwhile, I have a game I'd like commentary on.


There are some rather static plays. Seems to start with :w34:. It's big, but I'd be tempted by J4 instead. Black's most serious "weakness", if you could call it that, is the cut at N4. Cutting at N16 is nothing like as important, as is seen later, because of poor shape in the corner.

:w54: really can't be right in the middlegame. It would make sense to cut at M16 now.

:w60: just looks like an overplay.

At B111 it looks as if White's theory is that playing for secure territory is a masterplann
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Re: the willow way

Post by mitsun »

A few comments:

:w34: and :w36: seem slow to me, but they are undeniably large, so I could be wrong. If B played next at G5, I would evaluate these local exchanges as favorable for B, since the stones surrounding the corner cooperate nicely with the moyo above.

:b37: may be the last big point in the opening, but to me it still looks like a relatively unimportant area, with no great potential for either side to make much territory. I would be inclined to complete the B moyo around M10. Again I could be wrong, so I would be interested in other opinions on this.

:w38: is very nice. The continuation through :b49: gave W a great base to reduce the B moyo, while B only got the possibility of a moderately severe invasion at C14.

:w50: seems very slow. The threat to cut off the B stone at M17 is not large (as was seen later in the game). Why not continue marching into the B moyo?

:b55: through :b59: seem like the wrong direction to me, forcing W into the B moyo. B loses more territory to the right than he gains below.

:w60: was more than aggressive, I would call it suicidal. Did you count the game and think you were hopelessly behind with a simple defense?

:w68: through :w110: was an interlude which ended up as a big trade but cost sente. It was necessary to try to live with the center stones.

:b111: says "I am not content with a 20-point victory, I want to win by 50 points". If B simply played P9, I think the game is over.

:b129: at R6 looks like the vital point to kill.
:b135: at T8 still looks like a clean kill.
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Re: the willow way

Post by Uberdude »

No one mentioned 16 yet: it's an overplay and black 3-3 would put you in a pickle. Simple 3-3 is ok (and then L10 is the proper reduction point afterwards).

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mitsun wrote:A few comments:

:b37: may be the last big point in the opening, but to me it still looks like a relatively unimportant area, with no great potential for either side to make much territory. I would be inclined to complete the B moyo around M10. Again I could be wrong, so I would be interested in other opinions on this.


I agree. The reduction/expansion in the centre has been urgent since move 26. Both players should be trying to get sente to play around there. I won't call 26's shimari a mistake as the 3-4 wants to add a move (high is good), though if it were a 4-4 I would call any shimari there a mistake, d10 maybe a mistake, and probably L10 the best move. I want to play there so much would seriously consider a tenuki to the centre on moves 26, 27, 28, 29 (treating c10 as Pippen-style bait), 30, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38.

Now the shape at the top right corner in your game is different to the classic position in the diagram above so it may be L10 is an underplay and you can go a little deeper, given the increased aji and chances for sabaki inside with s14 and o14.
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

I've been thinking about my go lately. I feel like I've been holding myself back in my play, and allowing myself to be intimidated by the idea of stronger players, rather than relaxing and playing up to my potential. I've been in the 1-2k range for a while now, and while I know quite a few people who think I am dan level, have never really considered myself to be there.

I know that on any given day, my strength fluctuates up and down, as does everyones. I think I'm holding myself back, however, by intimidating myself into underplaying or playing, for lack of a better way to put it, kyuishly in games where my strength is in question. I would like to get over this mental hump, and I think the only way to do it is to decide I belong on the other side of the line, and then play appropriately.

As such, starting tomorrow, I'm declaring myself at least AGA shodan in strength, and will play and handicap my games appropriately for that level, my level, win or lose. Furthermore, I'm not going to worry about the results of high handicap games, as black's result reflects on them, not on me, and will endeavour to play them honestly with the intent of teaching. I'm declaring this publicly, so I can't take it back without a similarly public mea culpa, which I do not intend to provide.

Wish me luck, and I'll see you on the other side.
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

I've played a couple games via DGS recently that I would appreciate reviews for, if anyone is so inclined.

In this first one, I felt I was slightly ahead in the mid-late endgame and am not sure where I lost the game exactly. I may have played a bit passively around the end due to thinking I was ahead enough.


In this second one, I got into an early pushing fight which I saw to be bad, but did not see a better alternative to either. I'm not sure if the pincer and followup lost me the game, or if it came later.


Edit:
Argh, looking at the first game, I just realized there's some excitement to be had in black's upper territory, though I think black can respond in a way that maintains a lead. C'est la vie.
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Re: the willow way

Post by Uberdude »

2nd game:

g3 is crazy, f5 extend is normal, maybe only move. After that k4 doesn't make sense with your subsequent sacrifice play. It would be consistent to try to save it by continuing to extend, perhaps a difficult fight indeed but you do have j2 to help. If you wanted to sacrifice it would be better to just j6 atari instead of k4. It's certainly a very hard game for white after black gobbles k4 and gets a stable group on the left side.
skydyr
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Re: the willow way

Post by skydyr »

Uberdude wrote:2nd game:

g3 is crazy, f5 extend is normal, maybe only move. After that k4 doesn't make sense with your subsequent sacrifice play. It would be consistent to try to save it by continuing to extend, perhaps a difficult fight indeed but you do have j2 to help. If you wanted to sacrifice it would be better to just j6 atari instead of k4. It's certainly a very hard game for white after black gobbles k4 and gets a stable group on the left side.


I definitely agree with k4. I was considering running and fighting, but ended up changing my mind and it didn't end well.
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Re: the willow way

Post by Bill Spight »

Some comments on the second game. :)

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