#232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:44 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . 8 . . . 7 . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 3 X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A stab at very rough counting, assuming left side is solved peacefully.

Black:
Top right: 15-20
Right side 20
Top left 5-10
bottom: 15
TOTAL: 55-65

White:
Top 35
Left: 15
bottom: 10
Right: Doesn't die, points are bonus

TOTAL: 60+

Assuming I'm not totally off, I've about gotten back the handicap stones. This was my impression before counting. I think I can handle any complications black might try on left, but let's see how it goes.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:16 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . 8 . . . 7 . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 3 X . X O . . | $$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, my opponent's taken the corner so let's get this fight started before he takes both of the miai. I was tempted to reduce the top and try and cut the right side group off, but I'd prefer to do that through the flow of the fight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Rough expectations $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . 1 . O . . . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . a b c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I expect this move in response from white, and am thinking about how to proceed, between A, B, and C, which are all fairly normal depending on the circumstances. B leads to a well-known ko. Perhaps rather intuitively, A is territorial and C is influential in aim. I haven't counted ko threats yet, but intend to shortly as I'm not sure if the ko is a good choice for black or not. My inclination is that black's positions are more solid than white's, which should mean that black has more ko threats, but I'll count after my opponent responds, in case he does something odd like attaching on top.

I did consider playing one point lower instead, but regarding the normal joseki in the corner, white's a move ahead and black doesn't have the ladder, so I'm inclined to think it won't come out as well, and it doesn't activate the connection aji as strongly.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:57 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X. . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:22 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 7 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So this is the ko...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . 0 . O . . . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . 9 X 8 . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 7 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I think I could play this way if necessary since white played :w51:

one space higher, limiting his connection. I'll admit black's group looks kind of heavy, but then, so does white's. I think I'm comfortable playing this way.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:56 am

Sorry, will think for a bit longer propably, was a busy weekend.

I kind of ignored the ko-sequence below :oops:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 4 . 6 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 3 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It does seem hard to fight that ko right now unless I find some spectacular threats e.g. at bottom. If I could get A below as an attack on the group above it, that would improve the situation with the ko in my reading a lot (I can then surround black if he tries to fight the ko...).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . a . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:09 pm

seems to be a busy week, and a slight flu doesn't help - moves may stay more infrequent for a while

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:33 pm

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:01 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . d . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . a . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . b . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O c . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I considered the cap at A, as I mentioned, but didn't like black's prospects after white stands up at C. I also considered peeping at B to strengthen the invading group. I ended up deciding on C as it's a big move and possibly the vital point. In addition, I'm pretty certain I can eke out life with the upper group if I tenuki it, starting with peeping from the other side at D to make an eye locally or cut white. I'm not promising that things won't get messy, however.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:32 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:28 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:36 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I could just be sure of sacrificing the five stones on right, I could consider fighting the ko, but I'm afraid black would go after my bottom right corner, which I can't let go. And I see at least three threats against bottom right, which is too many (starting with A below).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:10 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O c e . g . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . d O f 3 h a . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I expect white will run out the top group with A rather than cut at B since A is so devastating if black plays there. I strongly considered playing B myself, but if white cuts, I can push out and have a ko with a local threat or two to win it along with damaging white's running group in the process. I'd love to be able to play A myself now, but I think that the cuts are too painful without any reinforcement. I briefly considered trading to attack the right side group, but I'm not sure that I would be strong enough to guarantee a kill, and if I don't kill, it's not enough since I would have given away a lot on the left. In any case, I could always consider capping after white plays A. In that case, though, perhaps I should make the sente eye first to reduce pressure on the upper left black group (black c -> white d, black e -> white f, then black g -> white h to prevent white's peep).

In any case, if I can get white's group running and heavy, and then play a central splitting move, I think white will be in trouble, as I still have the cut at Z to split white further.

@observers

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:24 am

I don't like leaving that cut. Even ko cut makes white have a lot more flexibility. How about hanging connection? That also fixes e4 cut (But yes isn't as solid as game connect so white has some peeps or maybe some tesuji at e4 but the cut above is more important IMO). Note that d8 peep is not so effective here (even with d5 push first) as black can resist at d9 due to white's weakness above.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:46 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . 9 . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next e.g. following seems to go towards making the cut at :w75:

interesting? And if black misplay, I could get an attack on top group instead?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm70 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X 1 X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . 2 . 3 5 . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . O 4 . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . X . 7 9 b d e . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X 6 8 a c . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:11 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm61 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . 9 . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . 0 . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hmm... That's a good move, and one I'm wondering how I didn't anticipate. I think I am going to push and cut instead of responding by connecting, because it makes my previously sente eye gote in any case, and if I live passively, my attack comes to nothing. There's enough weaknesses all around that it looks like a decent fight, at least. I like attaching below :w69:

because I have the ladder that runs into M5. I've also considered the other cut at F11. The other attachments to :w63:

allow white to stay connected.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . W 5 . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . 3 1 4 . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . O 2 . 6 . . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X 7 X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . W 8 0 . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . 6 1 3 9 . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . O 2 4 5 , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X . X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . 9 O . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . 8 1 2 . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . O 3 B . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . 0 . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . X . 5 7 W . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

None of these seem ideal, though, and that last one looks like a crazy multi-step ko for black, so I'm not thrilled.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X 7 X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . 6 4 . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . O 2 O 5 3 . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . . X . 1 . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | . X 0 9 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Followed by:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . X X X X . . . O . O . O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O 9 . O O . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | 8 5 7 O O O X X . , . . O X . X O . . | $$ | . 4 X 3 X . . . . . . . O X . . X X . | $$ | 6 X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . X O O . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

These last two look okay, as I don't think white can resist the peep without getting everything cut off or losing a lot of aji. I don't know that this is how things will actually go, but it seems reasonable to me, and getting the shape point with the third move seems ideal. In the last diagram, I count black ahead by at least the center capture, but it still has some aji and white has sente. If white trades cuts, I think the game is still fairly even, as well, despite white's new center potential.

As a result, I'll play this way and see what happens.

Life In 19x19

#232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr

Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr