#241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

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Loons
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 7 O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 7 O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1 3 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 0 . . , . 7 O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Hmm.
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1 3 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 7 . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


how to count prisoners in these diagrams?
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Post by EdLee »

Instead of :b65: the ladder (a), how about :b1: ? Seems double sente ( :w66: ) ?
The local shape after :b67: also seems over-concentrated for B ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . a O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Post by EdLee »

how to count prisoners in these diagrams?

Here's one convention:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm59 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1 3 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 7 C X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

thanks alot!
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm59 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1 3 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 0 . . , . 7 C X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I think this move is clearly bigger, because cramping 71 seems bigger than reverse-sente-ing 69-70
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm68 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . . X X X O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . , . . 1 . . , . X C X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Uberdude »

White is dreaming if he thinks black should play 71. Coming into the top left is much bigger. Probably white should have secured that.
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

I assume Uberdude is pointing out that black would prefer eg. C17 to -1, 7. Noted.

My estimate puts black at about 51 points and white around forty on the board, though a lot of what I count for white is slightly imaginary. So I feel about five points down, maybe ten.
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . X . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


im wondering what happens here... as far i count i win the capturing race so white should give me the corner and have to live then. i will think about this a littlebit and let it open for now. the thing is, even if it works it might be gote and gives white the opportunity to play the huge B12. and i dont think he will play r18 himself in the near future. im pretty sure he knows that im ahead by a small amount so i estimate these kind of multipurpose moves like 68. if i still think it works after the left corner fighting ill come back.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . X . X O X 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 6 . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Last edited by xoxo88 on Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

hmm i wonder if it wouldnt have been better to invade right away. now w may play c16 himself. i noticed that the trade b12, e8 helps me to invade his middle moyo :/ so many questions on this board. i guess if w plays defensive c16 now ill fight out the north east corner and see what happens to make some questionmarks go away.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . X . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

I wasn't expecting this. My first instinct is weird. Well, not weird considering I was thinking of the 3-3 invasion for black. My stones on the left still cover the centre a bit.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
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Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Uberdude
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Uberdude »

If I write an empty hide tag will it prompt Loons to analyse more? :D
skydyr
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Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by skydyr »

Uberdude wrote:
If I write an empty hide tag will it prompt Loons to analyse more? :D

I'm willing to bet yes. :)
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