#241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post Reply
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Bill Spight »

The Tsuke-Nobi Deferred.

;)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
xoxo88
Dies with sente
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:03 am
Rank: Tygem 5d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X . , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
quite obvious, the nobi should be mistake actually
@Joaz
Actually no, i guess i should have, my strength should be of some more use... im still abit depressed how i couldnt realize the ko :O and lost some fighting spirit i guess
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X . , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Black needs to add a move because
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X 5 . 6 . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 4 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |[/go]
I hope to catch a few points in the centre in recompense, considering I have a lot of centre pointing stones.
@Joaz
I thought a little about it, but I preferred the game variation. In hindsight perhaps it was enough points to play that move.

I think I can catch enough points in the centre.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Uberdude »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X 5 . 6 . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 4 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Lower left is so big I would seriously consider tenuki here. Black now has a chance to use his m16 thickness to tenuki without fear of either group dying rather than to make territory.
Top
xoxo88
Dies with sente
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:03 am
Rank: Tygem 5d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
So I spent a long time wanting to play this move, which is clearly good, but I felt too reducible:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Black has a possibility of a ko fight here.
Unfortunately for him, he doesn't seem to have the necessary ko threats to make it work.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X X , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O 2 3 O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 5 a . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
xoxo88
Dies with sente
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:03 am
Rank: Tygem 5d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by xoxo88 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

I feel quite comfortable ignoring that move, though surely I wanted to play down there myself. I will have a further look if black has some lethal followup I'm not seeing. Mostly I'm torn about continuing in the middle. I'm a little leery because if I keep playing moves in the centre and ceding corner moves, these centre moves must actually be big potatoes...

If I get 'c', black might have to live on the right. 'a' connects my thickness. 'b' seems huge for both to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 a . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . b . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Eh, I think I've been making mistakes. I have part of a centre made of wet tissue paper. I think I've mentioned 104 before. It's a move at the edge of two moyos, and aims to rescue my cutting stone on the right.

Xoxo must see a followup or have considered bottom left sente for me, neither of which I am sure of.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Uberdude »

@ Loons
Loons wrote:
Xoxo must see a followup or have considered bottom left sente for me, neither of which I am sure of.
Why? Maybe he thought a ~40 point gote move was the biggest on the board, which I find hard to disagree with.
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Uberdude wrote:@ Loons
Loons wrote:
Xoxo must see a followup or have considered bottom left sente for me, neither of which I am sure of.
Why? Maybe he thought a ~40 point gote move was the biggest on the board, which I find hard to disagree with.
Loons wrote:Eh, I think I've been making mistakes. I have part of a centre made of wet tissue paper.
Relatedly, I was never very confident in my own sequence bottom left, which is perhaps why I misunderestimated it.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Uberdude »

@Loons
What was your sequence there? Or what did you hope for but which black resistances were troublesome?
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Hmm... Earlier, something like this:?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . 7 5 O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 4 O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . 9 3 X X O X 2 X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 0 . O 1 . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 7 5 O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . 6 3 X X O X 2 X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 8 . O 1 . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Which looks worryingly successful, doesn't it. Black could rob the corner or something. Also how sente and likely and necessary was :w1: :b2: at some past point anyway?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc cf.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “1-on-1 Malkovich games”