#231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:42 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 6 . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:02 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm70 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X , . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . Y @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . @ Y X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . @ Y X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . Y @ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz Banbeck wrote:He declines the offer of the stones??
I must offer them again.

I'm not following this game

,
but every now and then I take a peek to get a feeling of what's happening.

From the exchange ( :b72:

-

), and earlier shapes ( marked ),
it seems B has some ( big? ) mis-understanding about basic broken shapes.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:44 am

@Uberdude and other observers:

Uberdude wrote:Joaz:
What would accepting the offer look like?...

It would something look like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 7 . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 4 . . . 9 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . 0 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . 8 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

From 76 onward it is just guessing. I don't claim that they are best
( presumably Drmwc would play better moves for white ). But this does illustrate what I thought was white's best chances of big points.

As it stands now, nobody will get much in the center. I'll chase M17, and live by either making eyes or connecting through L8. ( Or, if he gets careless, killing M17. )

When the smoke clears, there will be very few points scored in the center. He may kill the three stones at F10/G10/H10, but that isn't quite enough to catch up, and it allows me to play first in yose. If he kills nothing in the center, he gets sente going into yose, but he has 20+ points to catch up.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:47 am

@Joaz:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:@Uberdude and other observers:

It would something look like this:

$$Bcm70
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . 5 7 . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 4 . . . 9 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . 0 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O O . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 7 . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 4 . . . 9 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . 0 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . 8 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

From 76 onward it is just guessing. I don't claim that they are best
( presumably Drmwc would play better moves for white ). But this does illustrate what I thought was white's best chances of big points.

I see, thanks. Perhaps it is not that drmwc would play better moves for white, but would see better moves for black which do not result in your centre group dying.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:12 am

@Uberdude and other observers:

Uberdude wrote:@Joaz:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:@Uberdude and other observers:

It would something look like this:

$$Bcm70
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . 5 7 . . . X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 4 . . . 9 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . 0 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O O . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 7 . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 4 . . . 9 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . 0 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . 8 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

From 76 onward it is just guessing. I don't claim that they are best
( presumably Drmwc would play better moves for white ). But this does illustrate what I thought was white's best chances of big points.

I see, thanks. Perhaps it is not that drmwc would play better moves for white, but would see better moves for black which do not result in your centre group dying.

Yes. The opponent seeing better moves is a perennial problem in my games. :sad:

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:04 am

Here is my plan. Black has two obvious moves to save his single stone. Thie first is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O 6 7 X O . 8 9 X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O 5 1 . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . 0 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

If black use the diagonal move, I get a useful sente exchange at 6-7 which eliminates a lot of bad aji for my central thing. Then I attack the whole lot. I am behind, but the game is playable given it's on 4 stones.

The other move is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . 2 3 X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O a X . 4 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

This move keeps my aji worse (e.g.at a). However, I can be more vigorous in the centre and the fight may not be too unreasonable for me.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:10 am

@ all: Life is busy right now, and the position is complicated. So it may be a few days before I post a move.

@Observers:

There are three posible moves here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 6 . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 4 . b a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . c . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

A) The most aggressive. If I can play the cut and hold it, I win. Unfortunately that does not happen against best defense - which my opponent would probably find.
Nonetheless, there are some variations in which I may profitably play it and sacrifice it, making eyes in the middle while he kills two or three cutting stones. If I can be assured of leaving the center with sente to start yose, I'll choose this line. ( It is a big 'if', so more reading is required )

B) The safe move, which holds everything together, and ensures that he does not get much territory on the upper side. However, it is slow, and allows him much room to for mischief on the right side of the center.

C) This strenghtens H13, and thereby aims at pushing at G13, for either a connection or an attack against F9.

These three each give the game a distinct character, and there is no going back after I have chosen. So I may take several more days to read.

All lines have one thing in common: I'm looking for an opportunity to play L8.

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:36 am

Feel free to take your time - after all, I spent around a month on a move recently!

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:43 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 6 . . . X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 4 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

Trigger for Drmwc:

Comments later...

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:41 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 6 . 8 9 X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 4 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . 0 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

My original plan was the diagram below. However, black 2 is then strong and leaves me in a bit of a bind. (I may be able to capture somehting somewhere, but it's too expensive.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O 5 O X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X 2 3 4 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . 6 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . 1 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

To avoid the mess above, I could contemplate this line:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X 2 . 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . 4 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . 1 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

Again, this looks less than inspiring.

Another move worth condiering is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . 2 3 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . 4 a . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

This is similar to the game, but seems to give black a few more options (e.g. playing at a with 4 to give up some stones but take the initiative.)

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:27 pm

@Observers:

This is a surprise. I thought that he had to push one more at 'a' to improve his shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm70 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . 5 6 . 8 9 X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . 3 4 . 7 a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . 0 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , 1 . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

After the pairs of circled stones are played, I can connect underneath:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 5 2 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X B O 3 X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O b W X O 4 O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X B W . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

Which means that he can't fix the cutting point at 'b' in sente.

I'm inclined to play K15 immediately.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:36 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

Trigger for Drmwc:

@observers:

I won't try to show all of the hundreds of lines that I have looked at in the past week.

In general, I like creating the weak spot at L16.
In particular, one of the reasons that I chose to play it is that if I later play 1 as shown below, I can either kill something or connect underneath:

If he prevents the connection with 2:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 8 O 3 9 . 1 . 2 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 7 O 5 4 O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O X . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

If he protects his corner:
And hanes left:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 2 . 1 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X 6 O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O X . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

Or if he hanes right:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 2 . 1 7 3 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O 5 X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O X . X O 6 O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

My preferred moves are the places marked with circles. In particular, I still want to cut through the F file.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O C . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X 1 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . C O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O C X . 3 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . C . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O C . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:23 am

Apologies for the delay - I had a few days off to walk up hills and win a Go tournament.

Trigger accepted.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X 1 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . 3 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

My move will follow over the next few days.

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:23 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X 1 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . 3 4 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

My move is probably not a great surprise. I am getting a little thin with my big group, but I don't really have time to patch it up first.

I did contemplate this idea:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X 1 O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O 2 . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . 4 O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

I can play a probe at 1. If black cuts me, I get a connection beneath which is big. However, I then need to deal with the cut at 5. I have some shape issues.

If I patch up in the centre, black has some nice aji at the top:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm5 $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 5 O . 0 6 O 9 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 O 4 . O 7 X O O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O X 8 X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X 1 . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

White loses the game here.

So I'll keep the aji at the top undefined for now - I may prefer to play from the other side to the probe shown.

My expectation is that my move is sente. It's not completely clear-cut, but answering locally is nearly forced. Assume black plays hane (extend may also be possible):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . X 1 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X b X . . . . . . 2 3 . . . O X . . | $$ | . a . . X O . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . 5 O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . 6 . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

The 5-6 is pretty close to sente for me (big black bits become thin if black tenukis.) Later, the a-b exchange may be sente for me. I still need a move to patch up. There a quite a few possibilities, so I'll address the issue if we reach this far.

I also have a slightly ridiculous side plan if black hanes:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . 4 3 O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X 6 X 1 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . 5 2 8 . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . 9 7 a . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O 0 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

I have a cut, but it gets a bit discombobulated. Next I think I have to play at a, so black next decides his favourite attack against my central monstrosity.

I am generating some cuts of my own in the centre, so it may actually be playable. But it needs some careful reading.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:04 am

For observers:

For those who have not been keeping up with all of the strategic considerations - which may include me, I fear - here is a review of my general idea for winning this game:

1) I'm ahead by at least 20 points.
2) The only way for white to catch up is to kill something or make territory in the right/center.
3) So my highest priority is to not get killed in the center.
4) My second priority is to push eastwards with my center group to interfere with his potential territory. ( Conveniently, this tends to increase eye space for me, thus assisting with #3. )

Secondary considerations are mostly located in the upper left:

5) My group up there is alive, but many white moves near it are sente to kill.
6) If I can cut through the F file, I can harras his upper left group, and maybe kill parts of it.

With this in mind, the most thematic move is the hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . X O . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . 1 2 . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

While solid, that is rather unenterprising, and leaves white with sente.

I haven't analyzed N10 at length, but at first glance it threatens to surround white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc If 2 tenukis, 3 reinforces, 5 kills? $$ ----------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . X O . 5 . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X . 4 3 . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . 1 . O , O . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . O . . . X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------[/go]

Move 3 above is horribly aji keshi, so I don't like it unless 5 is a sure game winner.

Those are the two that I am considering so far.

Life In 19x19

#231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck