#244 Bill vs Ed

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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm27
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Bill Spight
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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Bill Spight »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm27
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


My question about :w27: is that it invites :b28:, which strengthens the :bc: stone.

Edit: Unhidden.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Aidoneus »

I think that by the time you get up on the West Coast, I'll be at Purdue, so take your time answering. I'll check back this afternoon (CST) when I'm between classes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm28
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


My thinking is that I can't isolate this stone from the two below but I might form a wall to squeeze the lone stone on top against.
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Bill Spight
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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Bill Spight »

Ah, well. So much for my thoughts on the subject. ;)

Edit: Unhidden.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Adkins Principle:
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— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm29
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Aidoneus
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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Aidoneus »

On class break. Back home tonight after 9:30 PM CST. No hurry, Ed. Of course, no hurry period. You can always take as much time as you like for any reason. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Local shape move, I think. Also, I believe that it should let me tenuki against another move around here.
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm31
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Bill Spight
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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Bill Spight »

Local shape here is a little above Aidoneus's pay scale. As he may see after Ed's next move. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Shape?
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . X W 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


The first shape lesson here is that :bc: is expendable. An indication of that is the 3x3 window around it. White has two more stones there than Black. Saving the Black stone does not accomplish much.

Once you realize that you can treat :bc: lightly, :b30: comes to mind. It threatens to gobble up :wc:. To prevent that White makes the exchange, :w31: - :b32:. Then it looks like tenuki time. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Shape?
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . X W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


The counter hane looks attractive. Now if White captures the :bc: stone, Black swallows up the :wc: stone, a coup for Black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Variation
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . X W 7 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 5 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


White can try the clamp, but Black responds with a descent. I don't think that the ko is big enough to fight at this stage of the game. (Instead of :b36:.) Still a coup for Black. :)

Edit: Unhidden.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Adkins Principle:
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— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Aidoneus »

I'll post one before I go to bed. Sorry, but Monday and Wednesday are long days for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm32
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Tenuki, as I intended. I don't think that I can keep him separated, but I can, maybe, secure some territory if he plays to connect.
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Post by EdLee »

9:07 pm local time. Sitting at LAX, waiting for the flight. :)
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Post by EdLee »

Now 06:45 am, the other side of the globe, waiting at the luggage belt at the airport. :) Almost 24 hours of traveling... :)
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Re:

Post by Aidoneus »

EdLee wrote:Now 06:45 am, the other side of the globe, waiting at the luggage belt at the airport. :) Almost 24 hours of traveling... :)


Don't worry about our game. Enjoy your trip! After you return and have rested, we can resume anytime.
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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Uberdude »

Aidoneus, can I suggest you post 2 alternative moves you considered for each move. This way we can see if you are considering better moves but dismissing therm through faulty judgement, or failing to find them. It's also a good discipline to follow and should make you play better.
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Post by EdLee »

Hi Aidoneus, now 30+ hours... a few short naps... :). Thanks.
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Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Post by Uberdude »

For example a few moves ago I would hope to see a diagram like this with a comment along the lines of "I wanted to block here but am scared of the cuts":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm20
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Your hidden comment perhaps referred to this move and some problems with cuts against MFOG but it wasn't clear.

If you want to play this that's good as it's the only move and you just need to conquer your fears (and understand what different yet similar positions that fear could be real). But if you didn't even think of this then you have a more serious problem in your basic instincts.
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