From DDK to who knows where

[SmoothOper]

If I were you I would purchase or borrow a Fuseki book. Pick a Fuseki you like to play stick with it, then look for a strategy book that covers that idea in detail, then look for problem books that solve problems related to the Fuseki...

[joellercoaster]

So of late there has been very little time or energy for Go... play even on OGS has been sporadic at best (I haven't been starting new games or accepting challenges), and as a result I have built up a losing streak that has busted me down a couple of stones.

The demands of the outside world will get worse before they get better (though there is light at the end of the tunnel!), but I don't want to lose touch completely.

I had another go at the GoGrinder basic tsumego, and was slightly surprised to see a 60% first-time success rate. Still nothing to shout about, but it's some kind of improvement. Looking at the stats I think it might just be that I took much more time per problem, rather than my insight having improved.

One of my cats has figured out how to knock the bowl over to make the lid come off and get the treasured white stones out. This was funny the first couple of times

[joellercoaster]

Minor update.

I have not been studying as such, but I have started playing more on OGS again, and have discovered Graded Go Problems For Beginners, and feel like it has immediately shown the way forward. Currently re-doing volume II; nothing in it has troubled me much but I got a handful wrong the first time, and the repetition has absolutely made me stronger in games. Apparently vol III is significantly harder, but given how much vol II has helped, I am excited to see what it has in store. Great books!

I feel like a few of the "now fix shape" or "X forces bad shape" type ideas are starting to make sense; you see that doing those things then affects the later game even though you can't really read out the outcomes. I find this very cool.

I've been experimenting with the Low Chinese opening, not necessarily because I know anything about it but because it's good to just look at one starting point and see what the different outcomes can be.

Currently hovering on the border of 12k and 11k OGS. The numbers themselves are not important, but the direction they move in is encouraging.

I still need to visit the Go club!

[EdLee]

Hi joellercoaster, I also like Graded Go Problems For Beginners.

[joellercoaster]

So, this feels like a good time to check in. I've been playing about a year now, entirely correspondence on OGS. I play a few moves each day, and try to always have 3 games on each board size going at once.

I still haven't formally done any study, but maybe it is time to change that (he says, again)

I've played 147 games of Go on that time (split between 9x9, 13x13 and 19x19, though initially I played 9x9 exclusively and they turn over faster, so a disproportionate number of those are small board), winning 111 and losing 36.

Although I have a policy of only challenging players with higher rank than myself (aiming at 1-3 stones, though some much stronger), that win ratio makes me think I haven't been aggressive enough in picking my opponents (I have failed at the "lose a hundred games as quickly as possible" task, but I will do "better" this year ).

I am presently OGS 9k.

I've read some books; Most recently Kageyama's Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go, which I will no doubt read again. It gave me a few lightbulb moments about how to think about things (rather than any technical insight) and shone some light, and I think it's ideal for people about my level as I was feeling a bit aimless (still do, but it was food for thought).

Other things I read this year that helped a lot:

Bozulich, The Second Book of Go - great orientation, "what the hell is going on?" kind of answers
Jasiek, First Fundamentals - "here are some stupid beginner things, try not to do them"
Kano, Graded Go Problems For Beginners 2 - immediately made me at least a couple of stones stronger, and the benefits accrued for a while afterwards too

I also want to point up just how useful Nick Sibicky's Go lectures are on YouTube. They are a great source of ideas that percolate around my head when I'm too tired or unfocused to read or play, and I feel like they've benefited me hugely. I think I've watched the first 40 or so.

Weirdly, I am presently feeling more at a loss than ever as to what to pay attention to. Now I have the outlines of (some of) the huge areas of knowledge that need attention looming like crags out of the mist, and I wonder which cliff to start on. Some options:

1. There is a copy of Opening Theory Made Easy in my desk, that seems pretty friendly. I could just read that.

2. I still only know one joseki, and I get it wrong more often than not anyway. Kageyama's chapter was enlightening; don't study joseki as a series of rote patterns, but try and benefit from understanding the fundamentals of each one and why the variations are the way they are. That seems like it could be a fruitful avenue to pursue; what do you wiser heads think?

3. I feel like I only understand shape in a very crude way. Shape Up! seems aimed maybe a little above my level but it also covers an area I feel really deficient in.

4. I'm not the greatest fighter in the world, though I'm getting better. Games at my present level seem to end up as brawls a lot, so that's an opportunity I suppose

5. I am also starting to really struggle with 9x9 (and to a lesser extent 13x13), which until now has been kind of a victory march. People in the SDK range seem much, much better than me at this form of the game. I think that probably gives me some insight into what I need to work on, but what?

The absolute right thing I know is to go and start on Graded Problems III. But, you know. Other than that, what should I do? The world is my oyster but it's a big big oyster, and I feel like I could use some pointers.

[MagicMagor]

Some thoughts from a stronger player:

First of all, it is pretty hard to determine what your greatest weakness is, without seeing any games. Maybe try posting one or two games of yours, then people might point you in the right direction.

1. Opening Theory made easy is a great book. I found it pretty easy to read, but then i read it as 2k. Still it is very light on theory and explains some key concepts for the opening with a lot of small diagrams. Actually i wished i had read it earlier.

2. You may know only one joseki, where you know it is joseki. I think it is impossible to play for a year and not pick up some other basic sequences. The pitfall of studying joseki is actully just looking them up, trying to memorize the sequence and then thinking you "know" the joseki. You have to try to apply the joseki in games and experiment with what happens if one player does derivate from it.
I would advise you to look up one joseki after a game. If you had a corner sequence where you didn't like the outcome or didn't know how to play - look it up if there is a joseki for it. And then compare you're actual game to the joseki.
And afterwards try the joseki in other games.

3. I don't know the book, so i can't say anything here sorry.

4. If you feel weak in fighting this can have two different reasons. One is lack of reading strength, which can be "easily" fixed by doing more problems. The other is a lack of strategic or whole board thinking. Attacking at the wrong time, from the wrong direction and not stopping when you should can all leave you in very bad situations.
While doing problems can never hurt i assume it may be probably more a case of the second cause, especially as you said you haven't done any formal study yet. Reading is also trained just by playing, but getting the right strategic thinking can be hard.
(This would be a case, where a game record would really help)
If you want to improve on that area, maybe the book Attack & Defense might be worth a look. It's one of those rare books every go player should have and i think 9k is strong enough to gain something from it.

5. The smaller boards, especially the 9x9 is all about fighting. They are good in the beginning to train basic tactical skills but they can teach you nothing of strategic importance. People might be better than you in reading and tesuji-skills, which i assume is not uncommon. Many people like fighting and as you experienced yourself, getting to SDK is possible with just a lot of playing practice.
I enjoy the strategic aspect of go more than the pure tactical fighting, so i'm not a big fan of 9x9 games. If you want to improve there, it's all about reading and tesuji.

[joellercoaster]

Thank you for the detailed reply!

I feel like my attacks are often clumsy and I definitely get a sense that they are mistimed as well; Attack and Defense goes into the shopping cart.

And I definitely know my reading is weak. Many more tsumego it is. And maybe a deliberate program of doing them, although the book series seems pretty good at providing motivation through clever difficulty progression

I have an 11-hour plane hourney coming up and Otake seems fairly slender, might as well read that and think it over in the meantime.

Thanks again.

[edit: recently suffered a painful half-point loss in a 13x13 game and have a couple of 19x19 games in less than great positions, so I'll post them to the Game Reviews forum as they complete.]

[Bonobo]

Joellercoaster, I think I’m in the same boat, DDK and not knowing where the journey goes …

Don’t know what OSs you use, but for iOS I really love doing Tsumego with EasyGo & SmartGo Kifu, and on my olden 1st gen. iPhone (iOS 3.1.3) with SmartGo Pro (not sure it’s still being sold). Perfect when waiting at the dentist or something.

And then I’ve done almost all of the problems on 321go.org, and perhaps 3.5K problems on ootakamoku.com, all in all I guess I’ve meanwhile done 10.000 Tsumego, including a few on GoChild and goproblems.com which have been mentioned before, IIRC.

Greetings, Tom

[joellercoaster]

win ratio makes me think I haven't been aggressive enough in picking my opponents (I have failed at the "lose a hundred games as quickly as possible" task

Aha.

I seem to have found my level - I am losing nearly all my in-progress games against 7k-9k players.

This is, actually, a good thing! And I am already noticing patterns - these people are owning me at life and death situations, and noticing my groups' space problems a critical move or two before I realise they're in trouble.

The answer is, of course, tsumego.

[Bill Spight]

This is, actually, a good thing! And I am already noticing patterns - these people are owning me at life and death situations, and noticing my groups' space problems a critical move or two before I realise they're in trouble.

The answer is, of course, tsumego.

Maybe not. I recall, back before the modern Monte Carlo programs got good, playing on a 9x9 against a program that incorporated Wolf's 5 dan level tsumego solver. I expected to get creamed. However, I killed its groups right and left. Why? By the time the tsumego solver kicked in, its groups were already dead. That sounds a lot like your experience. Tsumego is not all there is to life and death.

[joellercoaster]

I think that post contins a lot of truth about my situation. I continue to get creamed at 9x9 by SDKs, and you are right - I'm not actually getting to life and death problem territory. It's more fundamental; I overreach and get split or I get cramped and killed at leisure.

Interesting.

Think I'll spend a few evenings putting up a bunch of live 9x9 challenges and thinking about that while I play.

[joellercoaster]

So not much has changed - which is to be expected when I don't change anything. I keep plugging away at OGS when I have a minute or two, maybe a dozen move-a-day games at a time.

Grade has stalled at 9k, though it grazed 8k briefly.

Some things I now know though:

- I am weak at L&D, so I've bought myself a copy of Life and Death to read on the plane

- I don't play enough games! Correspondence is not doing it for me, I need to make space in my life to play in real time. It's not like games aren't available to me. Hopefully this will make the rate of lesson-learning pick up.

- I am terrible at 9x9. I'm entered in a 9x9 tournament against opponents 12k-8k or so, and I lose almost every game. I'm not sure if this matters particularly as I just enjoy 19x19 more, but it bothers me.

[EdLee]

I am terrible at 9x9.

Some people consider 9x9 to be vastly different from 19x19.

[1/7,000,000,000]

That's because it is

[joellercoaster]

My 9x9 travails continue, though I am visibly improving at 19x19 (comfortably 8k at present) I continue to lose to nominally weaker opponents on the small board - I'm trying to decide whether to just not play 9x9, or to use the game records to try and figure out what I am missing.

I am leaning towards the latter. It's frustrating to suck so badly at what should be a much simpler form of the game. Obviously "should be" is not the same as "is" but still...