3-3 invasion after a kick

[oca]

Hello,

[edit]In endgame,[/edit], this seems to be a common move (at least in handicap games). does anybody has a few documentation on this ? is there a sensei page for that situation ?
I think a or b are fine for black, but I would like to study that position a bit more... so any comments welcome !

$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ . . O . . O X b 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ . . O . . O X b 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------+[/go]

[EdLee]

[edit]In endgame,[/edit], this seems to be a common move

Hi oca, usually happens much earlier than the endgame.

[RBerenguel]

http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33Point ... 2FDiagrams

Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5

[oca]

http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33Point ... 2FDiagrams

Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5

Hi RBerenguel,
Thank you, exactly what I was looking for !

[edit]In endgame,[/edit], this seems to be a common move

Hi oca, usually happens much earlier than the endgame.

Hi Edlee,

oh... ok... I'm still a bit confused with what is an endgame move and what is played more early then the endgame... this would be more endgame is it ?

$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ -------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ -------------------+[/go]

[EdLee]

Hi oca, yes, and not only endgame, but aji keshi.

[RBerenguel]

Hi oca, yes, and not only endgame, but aji keshi.

A voice in my head screams clamp clamp clamp, but I can't really find a conscious way to do it

[oca]

Hi oca, yes, and not only endgame, but aji keshi.

I was thinking that was a good move... mainly because black cannot block at a

$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 a . . |
$$ -------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 a . . |
$$ -------------------+[/go]

So I think that would endup like this which looks not that bad to me...
Does black get too much here ?

$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X 2 6 . |
$$ . . . . 5 1 3 4 . |
$$ -------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X 2 6 . |
$$ . . . . 5 1 3 4 . |
$$ -------------------+[/go]

[EdLee]

clamp clamp clamp

Also the peep at 3-3.

[EdLee]

black cannot block at a

Why not ?

[oca]

black cannot block at a

Why not ?

Maybe that would endup like that ... (I saw the main line in a book)

[EdLee]

Hi oca, yes, B has those options.
But if W does not hane on the first line, W has even more options in the corner.
So if W does the first line hane too early and gets the result in your second diagram in post 7, W fixes all of B's weakness for B, and removes all of W's options in the corner -- thus, aji keshi.

[oca]

ok thank you Edlee, I will explore the 3-3 invasion in that situation too.

[paK0]

http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33Point ... 2FDiagrams

Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5

I looked at that, but what about this variation?


I really can't find a satisfying variation for black

[RBerenguel]

http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33Point ... 2FDiagrams

Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5

I looked at that, but what about this variation?


I really can't find a satisfying variation for black

As it is, atari on the outside, if W lives, fine, ponnuki on the outside. And I doubt it lives anyway

[paK0]

Thanks, I thought white was alive, so it seemed bad for black, since R4 was played with the intention of getting some points in the corner.