#244 Bill vs Ed - Page 21 - Life In 19x19

#244 Bill vs Ed

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Aidoneus: Lives in gote; Posts: 603; Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm; GD Posts: 0; Location: Indiana; Has thanked: 114 times; Been thanked: 176 times

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Quote

Post by Aidoneus » Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:21 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm132 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:49 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm133 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X 1 . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 2:49 pm. )

Aidoneus: Lives in gote; Posts: 603; Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm; GD Posts: 0; Location: Indiana; Has thanked: 114 times; Been thanked: 176 times

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Quote

Post by Aidoneus » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:52 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm134 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:06 am

Hi Aidoneus, the bad news about sente & gote is it's an endless journey.
That's also the good news.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm135 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 3:06 pm. )

Aidoneus: Lives in gote; Posts: 603; Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm; GD Posts: 0; Location: Indiana; Has thanked: 114 times; Been thanked: 176 times

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Quote

Post by Aidoneus » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:18 am

If you play S19, then I play Q19.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm136 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:21 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm137 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 4:21 pm. )

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:23 am

Aidoneus: Lives in gote; Posts: 603; Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm; GD Posts: 0; Location: Indiana; Has thanked: 114 times; Been thanked: 176 times

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Quote

Post by Aidoneus » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:32 am

OK, I get it. I can't push you around. Still, if you play S19, I will answer Q19. Of course, if you play S5, I will answer Q5.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm138 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . 1 X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm139 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . 1 . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 4:37 pm. )

Aidoneus: Lives in gote; Posts: 603; Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm; GD Posts: 0; Location: Indiana; Has thanked: 114 times; Been thanked: 176 times

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Quote

Post by Aidoneus » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:55 am

Yeah, that was where I thought that I was going to play after the "forced" sequence at the top right. Of course, I didn't think it through. BTW, it's almost 3:00 AM here, so I am probably going to fall asleep soon.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm140 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . O 1 . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:03 am

Hi Aidoneus, have some nice rest during this holiday.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm141 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . X O X . X X X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . O X X O . . . . X X O . | $$ | . O X O O . X . O O O . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . X O X X X . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O X . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . O X , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . X . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . 1 . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | X . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | X O X O O . O . O X . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 5:03 pm. )

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:30 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

For beginners.

Of course, :b2:

:b2:

is a very big move.
But from this move, and certain :black:

:black:

moves later,
there's a feeling :black:

:black:

was avoiding direct conflict with :white:

:white:

.
This is a strategy. It could work if the follow-ups were OK,
and :black:

:black:

's follow-ups were quite OK for a long time.

Both :b8:

:b8:

and

:b10:

had this similar feeling (posts 296, 297).

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 5:30 pm. )

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:49 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm19 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X 1 . | $$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

For beginners.

:b20:

:b20:

was a local miss (post 36),
but after the :w21:

:w21:

-

:b22:

exchange, globally :black:

:black:

was still in good shape.

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 5:49 pm. )

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:56 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm24 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . b . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

For beginners.

This exchange :b24:

:b24:

-

:w25:

is a common beginner mistake.
( Not so easy to explain this in a few words. )
Of course, :black:

:black:

did not lose the game here.
It still has to do with the follow-ups.

For example, a local follow-up for :black:

:black:

is to continue the contact fight:
continue to push at (a). But in the game, :b26:

:b26:

went to (b).
This has to do with the understanding of basic shapes,
liberties, basic contact fight.

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 5:56 pm. )

EdLee: Honinbo; Posts: 8859; Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm; GD Posts: 312; Location: Santa Barbara, CA; Has thanked: 349 times; Been thanked: 2070 times

Quote

Post by EdLee » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:16 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm31 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 . . W . . B . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Y O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O Q . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

For beginners.

With :bc:

:bc:

and

:b32:

, I get the same feeling again that :black:

:black:

is avoiding direct conflict --
almost like :black:

:black:

is scared of the :wc:

:wc:

stone.

Go is so interesting (and difficult): why the direct contact :bt:

:bt:

-

:wt:

is not good for :black:

:black:

,
and why

:bc:

and

:b32:

feel shy (to me).

( Local time Fri Dec 26, 2014. 6:16 pm. )

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