The new OGS

[Bonobo]

Out of curiousity, and perhaps slightly off topic, what's with the use of ☯GS instead of OGS? It seems much more difficult to search on.

Heh, yes, that’s why I usually also mention “OGS” in the same comment/thread

If you have been on ☯GS then you’ve seen their logo … I think it is very cool and eye-catching, that’s why I write it this way.

Greetings, Tom

[Bonobo]

Wasn’t sure in which OGS threads to add this, but I think this thread is adequate.

OGS – Online Go Server – online-go.com has rolled out the new 4.2 software update. (now with https)

Other useful links you might want to bookmark:

• The new OGS user feedback system where you can create your own suggestions and vote for them.

• The new OGS documentation

Enjoy and I hope to see you there.

Cheers, Tom

[uPWarrior]

It was a huge improvement, OGS has grown considerably and the interface is less clunky.

[Bantari]

I find it sad that you reject their wish to get more direct feedback

I have to admit I sort-of agree with defunct. While the sentiment to create a separate forum is not a problem, maybe even a good thing to do, this here *IS* the de-facto main english-speaking forum, and a place where most english-language go-related ideas are discussed. And there is no reason OGS cannot use it and benefit from it. L19 folks are even nice enough to possible create a separate OGS sub-forum is needed, they have done stuff like that in the past. There is even one for Kaya, for Pete's sake!

Were I a developer of a go server, I might create my own forum as well, just for giggles, but I would make darned sure I also monitor L19 as the main outlet of english-language ideas and gripes (btw - I also agree that your use of OGS logo does not help any such monitoring, as cute as it might be.) And while I would welcome people to post on *my* forum, I would certainly not try to entice them to do so - just do whatever they are comfortable.

Otherwise we end up with literally 100s of forums, one for each of the software/service we use... and that's just for Go... most of us don't have the time to not only monitor, but even sign up to all those forums.

L19 can and does serve as a nice aggregator in that sense, so lets use it as that. No need to splinter the community. As it is, I think there are too many outlets out there, and I personally feel I miss a lot by not reading all these forums, blogs, Facebook pages, and whatnot... Alas, as I said, no time to even remember where all of it is, let alone read/scan it for interesting stuff.

So lets try not to add to the mess, lets use one place for as much as we can instead of trying to convince people to post somewhere else.
Lets try to be considerate to those of us who do not have the whole day doing social-media-jumping.

[Bantari]

In the spirit of my previous posts, let me make some comments on the current state of OGS, from my perspective.

As I do from time to time, usually prompted by reading something about it, like this time, I just logged in to OGS to check it out again. I was confused by a few things, and it might just be that I am not used to the interface - but then, it might also be that the interface is not really intuitive. Anyways, here it goes:

1. When I opened the page, I had a sign-up screen, which confused me since I remembered I could do stuff as a guest without signing up before. It took me a few seconds to click on the OGS in upper left to open the side panel - but this only because I have seen it before and so figured out quickly where to click. Anyways, no biggie...

2. Next I looked for games to watch, as I always do. So I decided to click on Games... which got me to the page with 40 or so live games, 9 per view. So far so good... but I noticed that all the games were DDK games, which I am not often interested in. Is it just the time of the day, or a fluke, or is it like that most of the time? Anyways, I tried to search for more advanced games, so I looked around the interface.

3. I found the option to display more games per view than 9, which was very nice. But the max number is 20, I would like to be able to see all games, or at least 50-100 at a time. And I don't really need the live games as real-time boards, just as a list would be fine. I remember there used to be such option, or am I mistaken? Anyways, I could not find any other kind of view. It made looking for more advanced games a drag.

4. I also did not find any way to sort or filter the games, which to me is a very serious drawback, almost making the server unusable for me (I seldom have time to play, but I like watching good games while I do other stuff, so this is my main interest.) Especially if there will be more games played in the future and/or more advanced games. Will there?

5. So I decided since there are no advanced live games to watch, I can watch non-live games. But I could not find any way to view them. Is there a way to show a list of non-live games to view? I know I can probably look at player names or leagues/tournaments and see some games from there, but I really do not know that many players to search for them, and it is very cumbersome. I would really like a list of all games in progress so I can watch them. As a matter of fact, since they would be non-live, some bookmarking option would be nice for kibitzers, or even a notification functionality. Or is something like that already there, I just cannot find it?

6. Not finding what I wanted, I left the page.

This is it. My impressions after 5 min scan of the server. Take it for what its worth...

I will drop in to OGS next time something direct my attention to it, but for now the server does not have enough of what I need for me to use it regularly. Or maybe it does and its just not apparent. In either case, for now it still needs work, and I rather live without a stone sound.

[uPWarrior]

OGS is lacking dan-level players right now. There are not enough western dan players to populate several game servers simultaneously, so I suspect things will improve slowly as time passes and the current SDK/DDK improve and others join.

That being said, I agree OGS is not a good server for kibitz as it doesn't make it as easy to spectate games as other servers do.

[Bonobo]

[..] I don't really need the live games as real-time boards, just as a list would be fine. I remember there used to be such option, or am I mistaken? [..]

[..] My impressions after 5 min scan of the server. Take it for what its worth... [..]

Yep, won’t spend more than five mins then on the answer: after the update to 4.2 the user preferences were lost, you have to set them anew. Won't happen every time OGS is updated but apparently this time it was inevitable.

Enjoy

Tom

[Bantari]

[..] I don't really need the live games as real-time boards, just as a list would be fine. I remember there used to be such option, or am I mistaken? [..]

[..] My impressions after 5 min scan of the server. Take it for what its worth... [..]

Yep, won’t spend more than five mins then on the answer: after the update to 4.2 the user preferences were lost, you have to set them anew. Won't happen every time OGS is updated but apparently this time it was inevitable.

Enjoy

Tom

Oh, cool.
But does that mean I need to log in every time to take advantage of this option?

[schawipp]

My OGS impressions so far...

- I like the general type of interface very much. It's nice that you don't need installing the Ask toolbar before using it . If I would have the task to program a GUI myself, I would try to find out more about how it works.
- The rating seems more tough than e. g. on KGS. While being around 4k on KGS I started as 6k on OGS and am now about 8-9k. Also it seems that some low-dan players on KGS have OGS ratings in the 2-3k range. That maybe part of the reason why there are not so many dan-level games visible.
- I like the format of the game list, however a sorting feature would be also nice. There is a list mode accessible in the settings, however the number of shown games and their sorting is just the same as for the thumbnails.
- Many game offers are without handycap (seems a default setting, when creating a game) and there are also many game offerts on smaller boards. Thus OGS is nice if you would like to play a short game in between.
- It's nice to have a review tool, too. However it seems not yet fully stable. Once I gave a review and we were several times "unsynchronized" (i. e. the other player saw a different position than me).
- The score estimation function seems much worse yet than on any other server (KGS, WBADUK, IGS).
- Also the scoring at the end of the game can become tricky - especially if the suggested marking of dead stones does not fit. Maybe I have to read the documentation again.

All in all - quite promising, certain parts may need further polishing.

Edit: It would be also nice to have a kind of "back" button, which returns to the previous form. In the moment I always have to go via the main menu. Maybe I'm also missing some essential points...

[Bonobo]

Ah, first clicked the wrong button so you got an accidental “like”

[..] does that mean I need to log in every time to take advantage of this option?

Huh? I’d think for OGS to know what your preferences are you’d need to identify yourself to OGS first, but, not being a coder, I’m not sure how these things are done, you’ll have to try. And no,this is not a trick to get you there just one more time

[..]

- Also the scoring at the end of the game can become tricky - especially if the suggested marking of dead stones does not fit. [..]

there’s something with clicking on stones/intersections, can’t remember out of my head whether it includes pressing shift or alt keys or something

[..]

Edit: It would be also nice to have a kind of "back" button, which returns to the previous form. In the moment I always have to go via the main menu.

not sure what you're talking about here … what “form” do you mean? What about the back button of your browser?

[pitirre]

All I know is that i been playing more in OGS than I used to. KGS doesn't attract me anymore. I find good games in OGS, fast and lots of tournaments. I hope it keeps getting bigger and improving... is an excellent go server.

[Bantari]

Ah, first clicked the wrong button so you got an accidental “like”

Accidental? ACCIDENTAL?!?!?!
Are you trying to say that this one post of mine was THE ONE SINGLE POST YOU DID NOT LIKE out of the thousands you read???
And all this time I though you used the LIKE button to mark posts you already scanned...

I am crushed, heh...
I want to say our friendship is over, but you are so cuddly... I still like you.

[..] does that mean I need to log in every time to take advantage of this option?

Huh? I’d think for OGS to know what your preferences are you’d need to identify yourself to OGS first, but, not being a coder, I’m not sure how these things are done, you’ll have to try. And no,this is not a trick to get you there just one more time

No worries, no tricks needed. As I said - I check out OGS (and other servers) periodically, and when one appears which suits my needs, I will certainly go there often. So in this sense, only the developers have the power to "lure me" to OGS - and this is by doing a good enough job and providing the options I want.

And as for the technical issue we speak of - having to log-in to be able to see the games as a list - it is a big turn-off for me. It means that the usability of the server for guests is severely limited. One always expects some limitations for guests - guests cannot have ranks, for example, which is understandable and pretty much unavoidable - but in case of OGS the issue is not functionality or ranking but interface, which goes a step further than necessary. I wonder if this is by design or for other reasons.

[RBerenguel]

Ah, first clicked the wrong button so you got an accidental “like”

Accidental? ACCIDENTAL?!?!?!
Are you trying to say that this one post of mine was THE ONE SINGLE POST YOU DID NOT LIKE out of the thousands you read???
And all this time I though you used the LIKE button to mark posts you already scanned...

I am crushed, heh...
I want to say our friendship is over, but you are so cuddly... I still like you.

[..] does that mean I need to log in every time to take advantage of this option?

Huh? I’d think for OGS to know what your preferences are you’d need to identify yourself to OGS first, but, not being a coder, I’m not sure how these things are done, you’ll have to try. And no,this is not a trick to get you there just one more time

No worries, no tricks needed. As I said - I check out OGS (and other servers) periodically, and when one appears which suits my needs, I will certainly go there often. So in this sense, only the developers have the power to "lure me" to OGS - and this is by doing a good enough job and providing the options I want.

And as for the technical issue we speak of - having to log-in to be able to see the games as a list - it is a big turn-off for me. It means that the usability of the server for guests is severely limited. One always expects some limitations for guests - guests cannot have ranks, for example, which is understandable and pretty much unavoidable - but in case of OGS the issue is not functionality or ranking but interface, which goes a step further than necessary. I wonder if this is by design or for other reasons.

Technically there is no reason to log in to have preferences set, they can be (if the user gives the chance) set as a cookie. Or as data in localStorage in JavaScript.

[schawipp]

[..]

Edit: It would be also nice to have a kind of "back" button, which returns to the previous form. In the moment I always have to go via the main menu.

not sure what you're talking about here … what “form” do you mean? What about the back button of your browser?

Ha - that was too easy for me ... I'm influenced by all these web portals (hotel and flight reservation sites etc.) where pressing the back button of the browser can lead to confusion on the server-side application. At least you get something like a checkbox asking if you want to resubmit the content of the previous form etc. In contrast on OGS it simply works...

And as for the technical issue we speak of - having to log-in to be able to see the games as a list - it is a big turn-off for me. It means that the usability of the server for guests is severely limited.

This maybe a point. However it seems that the login state on OGS is saved in a cookie - at least I'm always automatically logged in when I visit the site. Also the sign-up procedure on OGS is the easiest and fastest one I encountered so far - just type once a nickname and a password and that's it (i. e. no need to supply an email address, open an email with a confirmation link etc.)! However I agree with you that OGS is good for playing quick games for oneself rather than watching high-dan games. For the latter I would still prefer e.g. IGS.

edit: missing 'quote' tag

[uPWarrior]

From a programmer point of view, forcing authentication simplifies the development of the user interface: it's one less actor (guest) that you need to worry about, so no hiding of particular buttons that are unavailable, no need to double test everything logged in and as a guest, etc. It's a trade-off, as always.

Requiring a user account for preferences is another trade-off. Either you use cookies/local storage to keep your settings, or you keep them in the server. If you keep them in the server, then you have the same settings if you log in using a different machine/browser, which is nice if you use multiple computers. Also, people that share a computer don't need to share preferences anymore. On the other hand, you might actually want different settings by machine, especially if one of them is a smartphone..