#245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post Reply
User avatar
paK0
Lives in gote
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:17 pm
Rank: terrible
GD Posts: 0
OGS: paK0, paK0666
Universal go server handle: paK0
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by paK0 »

I didn't think about this move, so back to the drawing board. M10 looks nice with the threat to push and cut or get a ponnuki in the centre, but the move is so obvious that I can't imagine Kirby not having a good reply ready. :study:
Top
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Bill Spight »

pak0 does not see that capturing the two stones is small. Judgement matters.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
User avatar
paK0
Lives in gote
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:17 pm
Rank: terrible
GD Posts: 0
OGS: paK0, paK0666
Universal go server handle: paK0
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by paK0 »

Gonna need a little more time, this is a though one

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O 2 . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 4 O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I really don't know how much I like that, it looks good regarding the right side, but I feel like I'm getting way overconcentrated here
Top
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Uberdude »

@Kirby,
Kirby wrote: I wish I had more of a plan at this point, but I suck at handicap games.

Don't be too hard on yourself, paK0 is making it much harder for you than most people taking 9 stones would.
Top
User avatar
paK0
Lives in gote
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:17 pm
Rank: terrible
GD Posts: 0
OGS: paK0, paK0666
Universal go server handle: paK0
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by paK0 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O B . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ultimately it seems like the best option I have. If I pull the other stone out he has N12 and while I couldn't read out exactly what happened to looks really dangerous.

If the sequence I posted follows, Kirby will end up with a decently strong group, which gives him more options, but I feel like I haven't messed up horribly yet, so I'm still confident about the game.

But I have to keep in mind to play a stone on the left side of the board every now and then.
Top
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Bill Spight »

paK0 wrote:Gonna need a little more time, this is a though one
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O 2 . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 4 O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This diagram reminds me of when I was 2 or 3 dan. At that time I relied upon shape to judge a lot of early play. That served me pretty well; first, because early positions are not easy to count accurately, and second, because I was pretty good at getting better shape than my opponents. :) Then I was reading a book by Sakata, in which he showed a variation that I would have chosen in a game, because both sides got good shape. I judged that as an even exchange. But Sakata, while acknowledging the good shape, said that he had felt that the result was not good enough, and had sought complications. The message was quite plain that I needed to develop my judgement beyond questions of shape.

Here, White has good shape, obviously, and Black is solid. At pak0's level he could be satisfied. :) Oh! And I am impressed that he apparently plans to take sente after :w5:. :)

pak0 wrote:I really don't know how much I like that, it looks good regarding the right side, but I feel like I'm getting way overconcentrated here


All I can say is Bravo, pak0! :salute: You are way ahead of where I was at that level.

Now, if you had just thought of that on your previous move. ;)

And Merry Christmas! :rambo:
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Location: DC
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by skydyr »

Bill Spight wrote:
pak0 wrote:I really don't know how much I like that, it looks good regarding the right side, but I feel like I'm getting way overconcentrated here


All I can say is Bravo, pak0! :salute: You are way ahead of where I was at that level.

Now, if you had just thought of that on your previous move. ;)

I'm sure I'm not the only person this happens to, but I find that insights like this can be very common... immediately after the move that commits you to a less than desirable position. The other thing that happens is that you see that the line leads to some issue like this, but don't see a viable alternative.

Please tell us there's a point when you get past this issue.
Top
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Bill Spight »

skydyr wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
pak0 wrote:I really don't know how much I like that, it looks good regarding the right side, but I feel like I'm getting way overconcentrated here


All I can say is Bravo, pak0! :salute: You are way ahead of where I was at that level.

Now, if you had just thought of that on your previous move. ;)

I'm sure I'm not the only person this happens to, but I find that insights like this can be very common... immediately after the move that commits you to a less than desirable position. The other thing that happens is that you see that the line leads to some issue like this, but don't see a viable alternative.

Please tell us there's a point when you get past this issue.


Well, as the alcoholic in the bar said, "Sure, I know how much is too much. It was three drinks ago." ;)

And as Znosko-Borovski said,

E. A. Znosko-Borovski wrote: It is not a move, even the best move, that you must seek, but a realizable plan.


And as Thomas J. Watson might have said,

THINK -- especially during the fuseki
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Bill Spight »

skydyr wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
pak0 wrote:I really don't know how much I like that, it looks good regarding the right side, but I feel like I'm getting way overconcentrated here


All I can say is Bravo, pak0! :salute: You are way ahead of where I was at that level.

Now, if you had just thought of that on your previous move. ;)

I'm sure I'm not the only person this happens to, but I find that insights like this can be very common... immediately after the move that commits you to a less than desirable position. The other thing that happens is that you see that the line leads to some issue like this, but don't see a viable alternative.

Please tell us there's a point when you get past this issue.


OK. Yes, there is a point where you can get past this issue (except on rare occasions, OC ;)). Avoiding errors that are immediately obvious, once played, is part of playing up to yourself. As bridge great, Terence Reese said,

A player who plays up to himself is hard to beat.


After digesting that I can truly say that I played up to myself nearly all the time at bridge, and most of the time at go. A DDK can play to himself or herself. OTOH, if you are a carefree player, oopsies are fine. :D (I used to bite my mouth and cheeks in my sleep at bridge tournaments. There are tradeoffs. ;) But that one was not really necessary.)

In this case pak0 did not see the overconcentration when he played the extension. He saw it as a severe attack. The fact that later he became aware of the overconcentation is wonderful. I think that he is playing above himself. :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Kirby »

Debating between this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . W X O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Might be good to make some sort of plan for what to do next, before deciding on this move.
be immersed
Top
skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Location: DC
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by skydyr »

Kirby wrote:Might be good to make some sort of plan for what to do next, before deciding on this move.

Hah!
So apropos.
Top
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Kirby »

Happy Holidays.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . W X O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To be honest, I'm not really sure what's best. I tried to think of a plan. I played this move, because if he captures, I can atari, and it's same shape as I wanted before:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . W X C X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So he might be tempted to move out:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . W X O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but then I'll connect and try to start a fight. If it were even game, I wouldn't dream of it, but maybe I can get some sort of advantage with local fighting if he tries.
be immersed
Top
User avatar
paK0
Lives in gote
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:17 pm
Rank: terrible
GD Posts: 0
OGS: paK0, paK0666
Universal go server handle: paK0
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by paK0 »

Same to you :tmbup:

Mh, this is at least a little surprising. I think taking here is the only move, but I'm still gonna do some quick reads before I commit.
Top
User avatar
paK0
Lives in gote
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:17 pm
Rank: terrible
GD Posts: 0
OGS: paK0, paK0666
Universal go server handle: paK0
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by paK0 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems fine, so lets go for it
Top
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: #245 Kirby vs. paK0

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W X . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
be immersed
Top
Post Reply

Return to “1-on-1 Malkovich games”