Well, don't feel too bad as black attacked that top left corner very well for a 13k. Taking the corner for 16 does allow black a nice moyo, I would think about d8 attach instead. Black's c16 is a powerful move as your corner is surrounded, but you shouldn't die. Perhaps c17 should be b16 or d16. j13 at j14 could maybe come out, though there is a danger black ataris and blocks and then lets you capture g13 for a false eye and you are still dead. So maybe 50 at h14 is the right way to come out. Another idea is a lot earlier to play c15 at c14 so you don't get surrounded.

@Eldee,
Yes, I was trying to live... bad idea ... I wish I played that D16.
thanks for the link to amatterof's thread !


@Uberdude,
Thanks for all whose idea... after this game I played this one in which I also tryied to live in the corner at , and this time it worked for me (but was still scary)

I was also happy to find move 165

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

It's always nice to cut off a big fat blob of stones.

20+ points for a mid-to-endgame move is pretty fancy.

Hi oca,

A15 or B16 ?

B14 ?

?

D13, if you want to do anything with those stones.

completely wrong idea. Those H17 stones are -- pick your favorite analogy:
either "junk food", which nobody wants or cares about; or, dead bugs on the wind sheild.
You're hurting o16.

confused. At least K14 instead. You're only helping , and hurting o16 more and more.

Thanks Edlee,

That weird was a tentative of

1 : hit on the nose 'not so tesuji in this case'
2 : ???
3 : benefit

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Hi oca,

If connects with the bamboo at D13,
then you have miai of A15 connect,
and push out with a broken shape at E13.

Your D15 and E14 are cutting stones --
after , the fight is finished.

this looks so natural now that you told me...

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

But a15 doesn't connect.

houps... that's right...

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

JOSEKI TIME

I'm happy today... just played two good games, and at finally reached 12k after so many bounces between 13k and 14k...
So maybe it's a good time to improve my understanding of the joseki I just know the sequence...

Let's start with 'Hoshi', approched by a low, one space move.

I "know" these 8 variations...

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Let's take them one by one... and start by my favorite :

Joseki #1 (just so that we can later refer to that number for future comments)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 a . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , .
$$ | . . 4 . . 1 b . 5 . .
$$ | . . c 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +----------------------[/go]

- I understand that this is an "approach" and not an "attack" move...
- I play this variation instead of 'a' when I try to get sente
- I suppose this is play makes miai of making space for eyes with 5 next, or go into the corner if black plays at 'b'
- black gets its part of the corner
- white makes a two spaces extension to get a base...

'c' is a nice endgame move for both.

So I'm sure I'm missing things... so if you have a comment to make, that's very welcome

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Hi oca, this is interesting. On an empty board, you already have sente. Even when approaches, you still have sente and can tenuki.
( It is one nice feature of the star point opening: speed. )

Between the 4th line (a) and the 3rd line ,
I'm not really thinking in terms of sente/gote. How did you get this idea ? From your own actual battle experience, or from other people's ideas ?Yes, or a spaced pincer, or tenuki.

Hi EdLee,

Sure, I just read TheWorkshopLectures Volume One, which start with a chapter on "When to Tenuki in the Opening". BTW I really enjoyed this book. I'm now with volume two, but I should stop eating books, as with too many books read, I remembrer nothing



from personal 'my corner got killed' experience,

If I play like that :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . 4 . . 1 . . 5 . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

and tenuki at I'm always annoyed by a move like 'a', that's why when I play on the forth line, I always 'complete' the joseki, 'in gote' like this one, wich is my

Joseki #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , .
$$ | . . 4 . . 1 . . 5 . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +----------------------[/go]

and sometimes I even play at 'b' cause I don't like the invasion at 'a'...

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

In Joseki 2, you don't necessarily need to play right away, and depending on the surrounding situation, you may not need to play it at all. If white approaches again from the other side, black can always live by taking the corner with the descent, and it may or may not be a reasonable invasion at an given time. At best, I'd call Joseki 2 deferred gote vs sente. In addition, the choice between the two depends a lot on what's going on along the left side of the board. If white has a strong position in the upper left, may still leave an invasion, and it would have been better to play the knight's move response instead to avoid getting pushed around.

Thanks skydyr

A quick search on "http://ps.waltheri.net/" show that white tends to tenuki in situation like this one :

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Joseki #3

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . . Y . .
$$ | . . a . 2 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

I like to play this one when I play handicap games, when there is allready a stone at
later, white allways play a move at 'a'

My favorite answer is this one :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 X 7 O . . . X . .
$$ | . 8 1 5 X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . 6 4 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

At least I know what I get...

but I also like that one :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . W . . . X . .
$$ | . . 1 2 X W . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

And I suppose at 'a' is also possible if I want to attack the two marked stones.

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Your favourite answer to the 3-3 is the softest, wimpy one. Try to make the descent to a your favourite.

A quick pause in my joseki study to post that game from the swiss chamionship on kgs,
which is played without handicap... so that's me ~12k against a 1k or so... enjoy the desintegration

The end of the game (and maybe not just the end after all...) is just me trying every thing for the fun (that was ok for my opponenent, if not, I will have resigned earlier...

I'm aco (oca was allready taken on kgs) and despite that's a bit strange, I'm white...

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

A few comments on that game :

FUSEKI/JOSEKI

till I recognize that opening, this is a kobayashi.
Unfortunatly, in my head, kobayashi means :

"don't approach the 3-4 stone as I will get pincered and that will just help black build the bottom."

while this is not completly wrong, I think "don't do A ONE SPACE approach ..." would be more precise.
Missing that precision, I played far aways of the 3-4 stones...

After the game, I went to http://ps.waltheri.net/ and checked what was the most played move in this situation.

I saw this (or 'a') :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . a 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

That's really interesting for me as I saw that joseki in a book :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . 2 . 1 . . 3 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +----------------------[/go]

And I was thinking "oh cool, at least one that is super easy to remind..." but in the game,
I really failed to see that this joseki may be a good choice for that situation...


LIFE AND DEAPTH

situation at move 33 :
white to play :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X X . . |
$$ . . X O . . . |
$$ . . X , O . . |
$$ . . . X O . . |
$$ . . X O . b . |
$$ . . . . a . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]

In the game I played 'a', but I think 'b' was the correct move here...

Shape

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X . . . . X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . X . . . X . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

move 44 to 70, I was trying to live, and so tryied to make a lot of 'strong' shape, like the two above , but I still failed...

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . c . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . .
$$ | . . X , . . . . . 3 . .
$$ | . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . a
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Also popular or more popular in many situations. In kobayashi it might be followed by a-b-c (at which point white can leave the group).

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My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.