I have no idea how I'm going to respond to this. Any plans in my mind revolved around the idea that schawipp would return to the lower right.
A part of me thinks that means I should just play in the lower right myself, since I assumed it was the most urgent area. Another part wonders about this 6th line cap - a move I don't play or play against very often. It's near to my wall, sort of, yet it would be hard to pressure because it's so high.
I don't know what I'll do at this point, but I have planning to do.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
After much deliberation, I have decided that I should return to the bottom side of the board. I feel this area is just more urgent and important than responding on the top side. Were I to have responded there, I would have chosen to play O14.
So why this move on the lower side? I feel that black's upper right half group is much stronger than his corner enclosure. While corner enclosures are strong, they are not invincible. If I can strengthen myself enough, I may be able to settle my group by threatening his corner. If he ignores this move, the clamp is a severe follow-up for me.
Let's see how black responds. I think he will agree that this move is more important than following up on the top side. If he disagrees, then I suppose we will have a tenuki-war on our hands, because my next move will be in this local area regardless of where black plays.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
After much deliberation, I have decided that I should return to the bottom side of the board. I feel this area is just more urgent and important than responding on the top side. Were I to have responded there, I would have chosen to play O14.
So why this move on the lower side? I feel that black's upper right half group is much stronger than his corner enclosure. While corner enclosures are strong, they are not invincible. If I can strengthen myself enough, I may be able to settle my group by threatening his corner. If he ignores this move, the clamp is a severe follow-up for me.
Let's see how black responds. I think he will agree that this move is more important than following up on the top side. If he disagrees, then I suppose we will have a tenuki-war on our hands, because my next move will be in this local area regardless of where black plays.
I feel obligated to respond so that I don't give the impression of favouring one play over another by the number of comments that get created. I certainly find this an interesting situation, also. I'd be inclined as black to follow up on the top, because both black's groups are stable in the lower right, and black can't add a lot of potential there, whereas he stands to remove a lot of potential on the top from white.
That doesn't necessarily mean that white's move was wrong, however, and helping the group here did seem quite urgent. The clamp, however, seems like black could concede a stone or two and not be terribly worse off.
I didn't expect the last move, since I don't know what white is going to accomplish in the R5-R8 area. Since he touches my R9 stone I should reply somehow. Normally, ramming the head into the other's stone is bad shape. However I have the supporting stone Q11; thus there seems nothing to fear about.
My move threatens to cut off R8, and if white replies Q8 my plan is something like this:
$$Wcm44 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm44 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
After it looks as if I get a ripped keima (let's say I get a ripped keima...), however the Q9 stones look solid enough for themselves and O8 has some support from left side. If the sequence really continue like shown above it seems a bit awkward for white. So w may probably just want to tenuki on the next move. The question in this case is what was the point in . Most probably I'm completely misjudging the situation and will encounter something disastrous only a few moves later, enjoy...!
This is one of those situations where I tell people, If you don't cut, it's not go. OC, could be wrong, but in that case so is . IMO, OC. Now, without in place, the hane at "a" might well be better, but it might be better than , as well.
Edit: Unhidden.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Mon May 11, 2015 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Adkins Principle: At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Any other move in the local area feels pointless. I must attempt to keep my stones connected, even when my opponent will certainly cut. And even if I'm cut, it creates a hane at the head of two stones shape for me, at least. How bad can that be?
My goal here, as before, is not to have everything live. If everything lives here easily, then I think this game is going far too well for me.
After the cut, I have several options. The atari is one since I'm willing to give up P9, but that seems crude. Perhaps Q6 to link up with my P5 stone? The hane underneath at S9 also looks interesting.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
I'll mention the other natural move of , which would be my choice after (black lacks the lead to play 'a'). It's infinitely more stylish than bumping one's head and cutting. By which I mean it has less problems.
Of course, it's an attacking move and white seems modestly hard to hound, though perhaps it would be rewarding.
Actually, white doesn't have time to take gote in both the bottom right and top.
White doesn't need to play 46 though, he can defend the cut somehow and treat the lower stone lightly, it still has p3 aji for sabaki, which turns 43 into a bad move (p10/11 gain power). Not saying that's bad for black, but I don't think white needs to cry.
Could you give me an example of how you would proceed given Q8, or do you feel it was unequivocally bad (v. your lighter pattern)? I do feel made bad and thus vindicated .
I'll concede I include and disinclude odd diagrammatic moves in my diagrams.
Maybe like this if you don't cut? Next if black a white can try to make something around the lower side or attack 1 and sort of connect up his group around n14.
$$Bcm41 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . 8 X . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O 3 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . 6 4 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . a O . X . . | $$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . b . . c X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . d . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm45 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 7 . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 8 . . O . X . . | $$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
... white would get some forcing moves and it would be too easy for him to settle.
With the peep instead, the white group remains still eyeless. I don't think that I will be able to kill it, however white will have to spend additional moves and I can either get some profit in the center or invade the top side.
[go]$$Bcm45 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . a O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 7 . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . b 6 5 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 8 . . O . X . . | $$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
... white would get some forcing moves and it would be too easy for him to settle.
Setting aside the question if whether this is the best line after cutting: white settles in a way, but aji remains at A and possibly relating to B, and black just consolidated 4th line territory on the right in sente. Is this actually bad for black?
I suppose my opponent didn't have to cut. He could have played the hane at P9 to stay solid. He could have split me at P6 to try to attack my stones by leaning on the other one. He could have even played tenuki and followed up on the top with H16, M17, etc. But never, in all my thoughts about what my opponent would play did I consider this move.
And I don't think it's very good. Why would my opponent peep when he can cut? That violates an essential fundamental of go: Keep your stones connected and your opponent's stones disconnected. Not only did he let me connect, but he let me do so while putting him in broken shape.
Is he trying to make me heavy? If so, I don't think this is the way to go about it. This feels less like he is making me heavy and more like he is making me strong. This group now has 6 liberties and is wrapped firmly around two of his stones while cutting one off solidly. The one that is cut off is far from any black stones on the other side and this connection here even helps me to possibly connect to my P5 stone later.
Perhaps I take the fundamentals too seriously? Is it that I hold too rigidly to ideas that I should be willing to let go? I don't think so. Which means either I completely misunderstand how go works, or my opponent made a mistake.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
seems spectacular to me. Consider.
it looks as if I get a ripped keima (let's say I get a ripped keima...), however the Q9 stones look solid enough for themselves and O8 has some support from left side. If the sequence really continue like shown above it seems a bit awkward for white. So w may probably just want to tenuki on the next move. The question in this case is what was the point in 
. Most probably I'm completely misjudging the situation and will encounter something disastrous only a few moves later, enjoy...! 
could be wrong, but in that case so is 
. IMO, OC. 
in place, the hane at "a" might well be better, but it might be better than 
bad and thus vindicated 