Redoing problem books?

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Bill Spight
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by Bill Spight »

karaklis wrote:That means just memorizing the position is suboptimal? What would be better then? Memorizing which stones are crucial? Or being able to divide the problem into smaller problems that you already know?


There is a difference between recognizing a problem and memorizing it. To recognize a problem in a book you do not necessarily have to attend to the crucial features. Then later you may misplay a similar position, relying upon faulty memory, faulty because it was incorrectly formed in the first place.

Example: I posted this tsumego on GoDiscussions. (I "discovered" it myself, but I have later found it in an ancient book. :))

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Black to play
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . O . X X .
$$ | . . . . O O X .
$$ | O O O O X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]


I don't know how hard it is. I would guess 3-kyu or so. But to my surprise it got at least one incorrect solution attempt from a strong player. (There may have been more than one, but I can't open the thread on GD.) Why? Because it is similar to a well-known tsumego. ;) The player made the right first move for that problem.

I have written more about this on SL: http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoProblemsTheFudgeFactor
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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Death via bent four (ko depending on rest of the board) is best for both?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ----------------
$$ | 3 1 5 O . X X .
$$ | . 2 . 4 O O X .
$$ | O O O O X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by Magicwand »

daniel_the_smith wrote:
Death via bent four (ko depending on rest of the board) is best for both?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ----------------
$$ | 3 1 5 O . X X .
$$ | . 2 . 4 O O X .
$$ | O O O O X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]


white saving them as a ko threat is the best :)
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Black to play
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . O . X X .
$$ | . . . B O O X .
$$ | O O O O X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by fwiffo »

Doh! I thought I was so clever for immediately seing this solution...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Under the stonez
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 1 . O 5 X X .
$$ | . 3 2 4 O O X .
$$ | O O O O X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]

But then I saw that their are much less fancy solutions... Then I saw it was black to kill, not white to live. :-|
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by illluck »

tj86430 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Black to play
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . O . X X .
$$ | . . . B O O X .
$$ | O O O O X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]


Seems to lead to ko?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Black to play
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 3 . O . X X .
$$ | . 4 2 1 O O X .
$$ | O O O O X X X .
$$ | X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Can someone stronger than me confirm that both my move and tj's work?
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by Magicwand »

daniel_the_smith wrote:Can someone stronger than me confirm that both my move and tj's work?

answer is black kills white by bent 4 in the corner.
tj' answer is wrong because white will live by ko.
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Thanks guys (was missing :w4: in illuck's second diagram). Nice problem.
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by Jedo »

I've decided to reread Life and Death for now since I first went through it a few months ago. Thanks for the input everyone!
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Re: Redoing problem books?

Post by kokomi »

daniel_the_smith wrote:Do it again. I've done most of my books multiple times. You can always do it upside down if you're worried you'll just be remembering the answers.


upside down is indeed a good advice, next time from left side of book, and then from right side
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