OCA's log

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:24 pm

EdLee wrote:
oca wrote:it is very hard for me to keep focused on the list while playing.
Hi oca,

Of course it is, for now.
Lists like this are merely learning wheels when you first learn the bicycle.
Eventually, you get rid of them.

As you progress, you'll create and add more lists of your own.

Once you've digested (internalized) them,
once they've become part of your subconscious,
as natural as your breathing, then you get rid of them.

for now that's a very weird feeling, because I can put tons of other things on the list but as I have no need to go fast, I really would like to take all the time I need to improve the basic first.

something else now, a new game that opposed My son 6 yo (black) vs My daugther 8 yo

They played on a real gogan, and I recorded the game on my iphone while they where playing.

Unfortunatly, The game stopped at move 44, I would say with some exitation from both side... because my son didn't know what to do, he didn't see that he can cature the two stones... well, just like me :lol:

So the end of game (from :b45:

) is just me showing what happend if black plays :b45:

at B9 instead of caturing the two stones directly.

My daughter really like first line moves like 8 or 10
sometimes, I let her place handicap stones where she want, and she like to place them on first line...
maybe that's tied to a sentiment of security... I don't know...

I like the miror start of the game, and some move are really funny like 23

[edit] I was also impressed my son played 19 and 21...[/edit]

That's really interesting as I can see my own default[edit]s

[/edit] through their game...

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:27 pm

oca wrote:I can see my own faults through their game...

Yes, a very common experience.

Parents and teachers (say, martial arts) will see in their children and students all their own bad habits. :mrgreen:

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:32 pm

oh

faults, not defaults... my english is like my go ;-)

... thanks Edlee

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:38 pm

I justed printed the new list, ready to go playing on IGS again... I will post the result after the game...

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:10 pm

9dan self-atari is impressive.

I bet he wanted to disappear instantly, without a trace.

oca · Post by **oca** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:47 pm

oca wrote:I justed printed the new list, ready to go playing on IGS again... I will post the result after the game...

Finally found 5 minutes to post the two games I played with my short list

1. IMMEDIATE DEATH
2. PAINFUL CUT
3. BROKEN SHAPE
4. FANCY MOVE
5. SLOW or SMALL MOVE

Game #1 - Lose

[edit]Fixed the file, I put the wrong one... and the end was not complete[/edit]

Game #2 Won by 0.5 points :cool:

(luckily as 249 at T11 would have killed my group...but I also missed :w98:

... so... )

Any comments welcome !

oca · Post by **oca** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:59 pm

houps, Fixed game #1 as I put the wrong file and the end of the game was not complete...

Amelia · Post by **Amelia** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:34 am

About game 2:
22: I think I would have jumped in the corner here, to ruin some of that side territory. Maybe that gives black too much thickness? But running seems painful because black is already pretty strong here.
Maybe that means 16 was too far away. It may have been too thin considering black was already strong on the right side. You'd have had less trouble with L3. If later black invades the bottom, you're the one who may well get an opportunity to make his group weak and attack it.

24: If you're going to run, you've got to run. My gut feeling is another one point jump here, to stay ahead.
Because:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . | $$ . . . . . . 2 O . . . . . | $$ . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ . . O . . X . O . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------[/go]

Surrounded with no eye space. That's painful. To get out of that you'd have to cut off and kill the two black stones on the left, or maybe the hoshi stone.
Edit: of course this might not be the best way to surround your stones. A stronger player could tell. But I wouldn't look forward to this as white. If you fail you'll lose quite a lot.
I think this is a better bet:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ . . O . . X . O . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------[/go]

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:17 am

Amelia wrote:About game 2:
...
22: I think I would have jumped in the corner here
...
Maybe that means 16 was too far away. ...

Hi Amelia, thnaks for your comments, :w16:

was a try at a SmallChineseFuseki, but that's not a situation I'm used to :-?

, I really don't know if uning in the center was good or not... at least I tried not to change my plan and getting nothing at all... but maybe :w22:

in the corner would have been better...

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:17 am

Whether to jump to the centre or dodge to the corner is not so simple. Using my advice here viewtopic.php?p=157576#p157576 it would say don't jump because black has already defended on the corner side so he can jump with the pincer stone. But you have l3 so his pincer stone is also a weak group, like your running group. Which is weaker? Hard to say. Also his corner move at q7 isn't the solid one space jump so there is some thinness you may be able to take advantage of later, but also your o7 jump (better than nobi you played as Amelia suggested) doesn't have such an obvious followup at q8 now. 3-3 is certainly easier...

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:45 am

Highlights:

At move 200 you lose a group. This taps into the earlier focal point of being aware of life & death (or atari) when the board becomes crowded with stones in the end. But even without that kill, you'd lose by 10 points. Why?

1) Losing tempo: Beware of empty triangles: all of :b59:

and

are bad ones.
2) Losing tempo: the whole sequence at the top was slow. White was able to connect easily with many points. You connected your groups too but too slow at that. I'd highlight :b89:

(see commentary)

Another remark: try refraining from fancy moves like 109 when your group is at stake and a normal move can save it while making points. Between 127 and 133 White can kill it. This is another reminder of your checklist.

Cheers

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:07 pm

Uberdude wrote: but also your o7 jump (better than nobi you played as Amelia suggested) doesn't have such an obvious followup at q8 now. 3-3 is certainly easier...

The more I see that nobi, the more I think this one violate my rule number 4 "FANCY MOVE", as I never saw that kind of move in any book for example.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:16 pm

oca wrote:
Uberdude wrote: but also your o7 jump (better than nobi you played as Amelia suggested) doesn't have such an obvious followup at q8 now. 3-3 is certainly easier...

The more I see that nobi, the more I think this one violate my rule number 4 "FANCY MOVE", as I never saw that kind of move in any book for example.

I wouldn't call it fancy. It's just too slow. Fancy (the bad kind) is "I can play this one move that does 3 things half way" instead of playing a move to do one or two of them fully.

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:40 pm

Knotwilg wrote:Highlights:

At move 200 you lose a group. This taps into the earlier focal point of being aware of life & death (or atari) when the board becomes crowded with stones in the end. But even without that kill, you'd lose by 10 points. Why?

1) Losing tempo: Beware of empty triangles: all of and are bad ones.
2) Losing tempo: the whole sequence at the top was slow. White was able to connect easily with many points. You connected your groups too but too slow at that. I'd highlight (see commentary)

Another remark: try refraining from fancy moves like 109 when your group is at stake and a normal move can save it while making points. Between 127 and 133 White can kill it. This is another reminder of your checklist.

Cheers

...[oca] Removed the sgf as if the sgf is here, the diagram below doesn't show up...[/oca]

Thanks you very much Knotwilg !

I didn't noticed how ofen I connect allready connected stones ! I will add that one to my list !

1. IMMEDIATE DEATH
2. PAINFUL CUT
3. BROKEN SHAPE
4. FANCY MOVE
5. SLOW or SMALL MOVE
6. DON'T CONNECT ALLREADY CONNECTED STONES

:b59:

I remember I wanted to make one eye so I'm not confident enougth this the strength of that group which is not in immediat danger, so I agree, this is really to slow, and violate my rule number "5. SLOW or SMALL MOVE",
:b85:

still that fear of double turn... I should really try more to play them

109, yes... really fancy

From 127, I was sure that my bottom group was alive, but the eye at 'a' can still be killed (167)... I was a bit too confident here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . . . . . . O . O X . . $$ | . . . . . O O O . X X X O . $$ | . . . O . O B O O X . O . O $$ | . . . O B B B O X X . O X . $$ | . . . O O B a X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ +-----------------------------[/go]

143 and 145, I read a book on yose, and I try to incorporate a few moves like these in my playing. The book about yose contains lots of nice things, but it was a bit difficult for my level so I will read it again later and concentrate my-self on more simple things right now like the problems in the "Graded Go Problems For Beginners" books.

mitsun · Post by **mitsun** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:36 pm

oca wrote:I read a book on yose, and I try to incorporate a few moves like these in my playing.

Does that book perchance say that before playing the good diagonal move, you should check whether the more ambitious knight move is even better? (move 145 at B7 is worth reading)

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