Kirby's Study Journal

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:06 pm

Some mistakes.

Position 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Position at move 13 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I played this move without much hesitation, expecting to get the corner in sente. I've seen it in pro games. But, after this...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Variation 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 9 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 7 X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 0 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It was too naive to think that black *must* play at :b10:

. Like I showed in the variation, black gets loss if he doesn't play there, but I should have considered tenuki. White's group becomes a little weak after 'a' in Variation 1, above, so I should have anticipated this.

Perhaps simply answering is best, and then I can come up with a more detailed plan for the left later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 13 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Just keep it simple.

Position 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 86 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | O . O O O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

The marked move leaves less forcing for now, but it's bad aji for later. It bit me later in the game. I should have just played properly, like in the variation.

Position 3

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 110 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . X W . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O . . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I am leading this game. So I can afford to play simply and solidly. It's black's job to press to catch up. I should simply play here, and I think I can win:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 110 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O . W . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O . . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

---

I'm sure I made other mistakes this game, but the story of this game is pretty simple, I think:

1. I was naive to think my play on the left would be sente, as described in Position 1.
2. That ended up working out OK, but I played a bad shape move... which was still OK.
3. But I left aji behind for my opponent to exploit, and he utilized it to win the game.

Simple story.

Oh, and I need to play more, I think, to avoid getting even weaker.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:02 pm

I can't download the game but I would think at 144 it's better shape to atari from the other side, then reduce the 3 black stones to 2 liberties by turning at the bottom. I think these stones cannot be saved then.

Wouldn't think of it in the heat of the fight, although it's quite natural to atari stones so that they cannot increase their liberties.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:58 pm

Knotwilg wrote:I can't download the game but I would think at 144 it's better shape to atari from the other side, then reduce the 3 black stones to 2 liberties by turning at the bottom. I think these stones cannot be saved then.

Wouldn't think of it in the heat of the fight, although it's quite natural to atari stones so that they cannot increase their liberties.

If I understand the sequence you're referring to, after white turns, black can play P6 to save the stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X O O O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . O X . . . X X X O . | $$ | . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | O O X X . . O O X X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . O O X X X O O . X . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . O X . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O X 1 . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O 2 . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O 3 4 X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But even so, at this point in the game, I think it's better; I atari'd the way I did because I thought I could capture the stone, but I misread.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:28 am

I missed the liberty at the right and read a squeeze. In that case, the main error was indeed the one you pointed out earlier. Thx

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:50 am

Kirby wrote:Some mistakes.

Position 1
$$W Position at move 13
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Position at move 13 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I played this move without much hesitation, expecting to get the corner in sente. I've seen it in pro games. But, after this...

$$W Variation 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 9 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 9 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 7 X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 0 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It was too naive to think that black *must* play at . Like I showed in the variation, black gets loss if he doesn't play there, but I should have considered tenuki. White's group becomes a little weak after 'a' in Variation 1, above, so I should have anticipated this.
...

In my database tenuki is about 50%/50% when there is no White stone close by on the bottom left (think C8). More importantly, however, is that attaching on top is not the 'normal' response, attaching underneath appears about four times as often. So did you expect play to proceed as below, or what? White does get sente but Black gets a very nice shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc The most common Black response at 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:53 am

I haven't looked into a ton of pro games, so I didn't know the diagram you provided was more common, ez4u. Still, I think attaching on the top is feasible.

The main reason I expected the variation shown is because I learned it from In-seong Hwang as the "proper" way. According to him, attaching on the top *is* normal.

The theory was, the player that kicks gets a lot of corner points in sente. In exchange, the player getting kicked gets a strong group on the left, which has good influence. I think that this is the reason that attaching on the top is feasible - you get good influence, even though the opponent gets corner territory.

For that reason, the move is conditional: you shouldn't kick if the bottom left has your opponent's stones.
That's because the influence your opponent gets is greater than the territory you get. That's why I thought it was okay in this position. I already had presence in the bottom left, so I expected that I take the corner points in sente, and his influence wasn't too much.
If there were already black stones in the bottom left, I wouldn't play it.

OTOH, maybe it'd be good if I had black stone around C8, as well. I didn't know it should be so close for this sequence.

But anyway, from this game, I learned that tenuki seems to be quite a feasible possibility, so I may not get the corner points in sente.
This seems to match what you found in your pro game search - sometimes pros tenuki.

So I guess I should add another condition to playing this way: Opponent may tenuki, so I need to weigh this into the decision of getting the corner points.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:33 pm

ez4u wrote:In my database tenuki is about 50%/50% when there is no White stone close by on the bottom left (think C8). More importantly, however, is that attaching on top is not the 'normal' response, attaching underneath appears about four times as often. So did you expect play to proceed as below, or what? White does get sente but Black gets a very nice shape.
$$Bc The most common Black response at 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The most common Black response at 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

above shape is terrorable for black IMO.
so the correct answer is either below or tenuki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 W 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:11 am

Magicwand wrote:
ez4u wrote:In my database tenuki is about 50%/50% when there is no White stone close by on the bottom left (think C8). More importantly, however, is that attaching on top is not the 'normal' response, attaching underneath appears about four times as often. So did you expect play to proceed as below, or what? White does get sente but Black gets a very nice shape.
$$Bc The most common Black response at 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The most common Black response at 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

above shape is terrorable for black IMO.
so the correct answer is either below or tenuki.

$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 W 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 W 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, you'll have to take that up with Gu Li. He is the innovator it seems. Three weeks before the game below he played the attachment on top against Zhang Wei in another Weiqi League game. In the game below, however, he switched to :b1:

and answered :w2:

with

. The 1-2-3 sequence has subsequently been used by Zhou Heyang and Park Yeonghun. I have no pro game where 3 was played as an attachment on top. All that said, I was incorrect to imply that this variation through 3 is the normal joseki however. Usually the opponent just plays elsewhere after the initial attachment underneath.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Peng Quan (white) - Gu Li; 2009 China Weiqi League; 2009-06-13 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . 6 . X . . . 0 8 X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 9 . , X 4 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:40 pm

Personally, I think that the sequence I provided is playable, and also the one shown in the example pro game given by ez4u. As the "one getting kicked" in this sequence, I now have another option to consider than the variation I remember from In-seong. Thanks for that, ez4u.

But more than what the "one getting kicked" should play, from this game review, I can take away that my assumption as "the kicker" was incorrect - getting gote after getting the corner points is quite a viable possibility.

Up until now, I've usually gotten sente, and it's useful to know that this was a big assumption on my part.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:18 am

A few other thoughts...

White 1 below in the game was a poor choice. White just got lucky when Black played 4 at 5. Of course Black should have played the standard squeeze with Black 4, etc. below. Black gets a strong position, loosely connected to the bottom. White gets about 5 points. White almost has to add a move in the lower left corner or Black C2 will be very painful.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Strengthening Black's position $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | 7 X 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 9 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What happens if White answers 1 below with 2 and just keeps pushing? It seems like White is the one building on a larger scale...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Building on a larger scale $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O . . . . , . 0 . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O 2 4 6 8 . . . . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O 1 3 5 7 9 . . . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game White played 1 at 'a' but Black was able to peep at 'b' and have White connect at 'c'. This protected against the push and cut at 'd' in sente. Wouldn't White 1 below have been better?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc A better threat? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X . . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . c b . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . a 1 . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . d O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Finally, what about 1 below? Doesn't this look more interesting than the hane at 'a' actually played? If Black 'a', White 'b'. If Black 'b', White 'a'. :rambo:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Interesting? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . 1 X O O . X . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . b X O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O . . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:24 am

Thanks, ez4u.

ez4u wrote:White 1 below in the game was a poor choice. White just got lucky when Black played 4 at 5. Of course Black should have played the standard squeeze with Black 4, etc. below. Black gets a strong position, loosely connected to the bottom. White gets about 5 points. White almost has to add a move in the lower left corner or Black C2 will be very painful.
$$Wc Strengthening Black's position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | 7 X 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Strengthening Black's position $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | 7 X 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 9 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Indeed, I think this is a variation I provided in the SGF review.

What happens if White answers 1 below with 2 and just keeps pushing? It seems like White is the one building on a larger scale...
$$Bc Building on a larger scale
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . . . , . 0 . . . , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O 2 4 6 8 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X O X X X O 1 3 5 7 9 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O . O O O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Building on a larger scale $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O . . . . , . 0 . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O 2 4 6 8 . . . . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O 1 3 5 7 9 . . . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think you are probably correct; though, I need to learn how to compromise. The idea isn't one I even considered. Opponent cuts? My first instinct is to fight back.

In the game White played 1 at 'a' but Black was able to peep at 'b' and have White connect at 'c'. This protected against the push and cut at 'd' in sente. Wouldn't White 1 below have been better?
$$Wc A better threat?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X . . . . O . . |
$$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . c b . X . . . |
$$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . a 1 . X O . . |
$$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . d O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc A better threat? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X . . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . c b . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . a 1 . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . d O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Good idea.

Finally, what about 1 below? Doesn't this look more interesting than the hane at 'a' actually played? If Black 'a', White 'b'. If Black 'b', White 'a'.
$$Wc Interesting?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | O X O . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . 1 X O O . X . . . |
$$ | X X O O X O . . . . . b X O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O . . . O . . |
$$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Interesting? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . 1 X O O . X . . . | $$ | X X O O X O . . . . . b X O . . . . . | $$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . | $$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O . . . O . . | $$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . | $$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O . . X O . . | $$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . | $$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I really like it! :tmbup:

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:47 pm

I had time to play another game today. I guess it's starting to become a Friday thing... Now I just have to work on getting games in Saturday through Thursday...

It's kind of short, because I think he made a mistake.

Anyway, here is my review.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:51 pm

Some mistakes.

Position 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 15 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess this is a joseki, but I don't know it well. Maybe it's ok in this situation, but I think it is much simpler, and just fine to play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 15 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . O . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think my move in the game was too greedy.

Position 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 30 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X O O O X X X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O B O X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game, I played as above to increase liberties. I misread, and thought he could capture me. I think it's better for me to just connect.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 30 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X O O O X X X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . O X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It looks like this is a joseki. I guess I have some studying to do.

---

I'm sure there would be other things if the game continued, but as the game is so short, I guess that's all that I can think of for now.

Maybe the main thing I can do from this game is to learn the joseki that started from the variation we played in the top left.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:14 am

Your proposed d10 feels wrong, too close to thickness and liable to overconcentration. Better to play in lower left corner.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:13 am

Uberdude wrote:Your proposed d10 feels wrong, too close to thickness and liable to overconcentration. Better to play in lower left corner.

Second that.

Life In 19x19

Kirby's Study Journal

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Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

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Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal