OCA's log
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rat4000
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Re: OCA's log
This is a fascinating position. White doesn't seem to be sealed because if he tries to break out and black resists bad things happen fairly fast:Amelia wrote:24: If you're going to run, you've got to run. My gut feeling is another one point jump here, to stay ahead.
Because:
So black has to protect the cut:
Except black can't play this way either because there's no good reply to 'a' (that I can find). Next attempt.
(8 is mecessary like 4 was, for similar reasons.) White is out and shouldn't have trouble making eyes, black's wall is facing white's strong corner, and white has a-b-c as a nice reduction.
If you really want to enclose white I can't really find better moves than what you offered. Playing 1 one point to the left (keima) may work but white will push and get strong and possibly point out that black's two-point jumps on the fourth line are actually kind of thin themselves.
So the moral of the story seems to be that black is too thin to play to seal (immediately). Chasing white all the way into the wall at the top is, I think, the correct strategy; in the game I'd call black's position better until p13, which I can't find a reason for and dislike.
Take this post with salt. I'm sure either you or someone else will soon find mistakes in it
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oca
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Re: OCA's log
mitsun wrote:Does that book perchance say that before playing the good diagonal move, you should check whether the more ambitious knight move is even better? (move 145 at B7 is worth reading)oca wrote:I read a book on yose, and I try to incorporate a few moves like these in my playing.
oh... thanks mitsun
... white cannot play 146 that way... as 'a' and 'b' are miai if I got it correctly...Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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Uberdude
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Re: OCA's log
Actually maybe white can play that way, how many points does white gain/lose that way versus answering on the other side. If white tenukis after hane on outside and black pulls back black has the clamp later. So there are some quite involved yose calculations here.
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oca
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Re: OCA's log
Three new games for me, the first one went very fine for me, a win by 30 pts or so
I lose the two other games.
GAME #1
In this one, the thing that I will remember is the end, where I didn't understood what black wented to do at 229. I was thinking "no problem, I have two eyes... I'm alive... no need to reply at all",
So I was really happy black wasted move here, and played triumphantly move 246, then, I understood that I cannot capture the stones, and that the situation became a seki... once again, this lesson is worth the game...
GAME #2
I'm happy of the invasion at 98 (I did that as there where 21 open points in the bottom so took my chance)
I'm not happy missing the killing move at 204 (that I should even have played at move 200) which should be directly at S15. I first wanted to reduce the shape to a bulky five, but that was allready a bulky five... I killed a false eye...
a bit earlyier, I'm not sure if there were a better option for 188, readed a bit but that was the best move I found.
Any comments welcome !
I lose the two other games.
GAME #1
In this one, the thing that I will remember is the end, where I didn't understood what black wented to do at 229. I was thinking "no problem, I have two eyes... I'm alive... no need to reply at all",
So I was really happy black wasted move here, and played triumphantly move 246, then, I understood that I cannot capture the stones, and that the situation became a seki... once again, this lesson is worth the game...
GAME #2
I'm happy of the invasion at 98 (I did that as there where 21 open points in the bottom so took my chance)
I'm not happy missing the killing move at 204 (that I should even have played at move 200) which should be directly at S15. I first wanted to reduce the shape to a bulky five, but that was allready a bulky five... I killed a false eye...
a bit earlyier, I'm not sure if there were a better option for 188, readed a bit but that was the best move I found.
Any comments welcome !
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Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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EdLee
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)
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standard bad habit: push and retreat (vs. push and cut).
misunderstand basic contact fight; not to mention bad shape.
misunderstand basic contact fight.
finally. 
R15.
pushing from behind. Did you consider J15 ?
finally. 
very confused. S12.
very confused. R11.
confused.-
oca
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Re:
EdLee wrote:...too much. Did you read the ladder ?
Did you read the ladder ?
...
Hi Edlee, thank you for your comments,
for
hmmm embarassing 
, I did read the ladder, saw that it didn't worked and still chosed to play on that shape point (hoping for black not to cut)... ok... not a good way to progress 
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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EdLee
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strange feeling. Q14.
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standard bad habit. Forces W stronger, fixes all weaknesses for W here. Bad shape. Similar to 
did you consider simply B5 ?
wrong shape.
if you want to fight, M7.
did you consider (or see the move) M15 ?
did you consider D17 ?
did you consider D17 ?
the result is B jumped into your strong area and took all your cash.
M15.
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completely confused. About important stones vs. useless stones.-
oca
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Re:
Hi Edlee, thanks again for your comments,
I will start with this one, as I noticed I have some trouble with double hane.
so the position is this one with
here instead of my actual playing at 'a'
fact : I hardly play the double hane by fear to be cut so let's try to see what hapend if white cut...
white can cut me at 'a' or 'b', let see what happend, first with a cut at 'a'
I suppose I should play in response to the cut. Now it seems that black should help both stones. but I suppose black should help the cutting stone (if not, why to cut...)
I can then atari at 'a' or 'b', or extend at 'c', and here, I don't know how to decide what the best move is... My instinct tells me to play'c' but I cannot really explain why... Maybe I don't really see what atari will bring me, so playing a solid extension will be better here...
What should we take into consideration in a position like that one ? is correct here...
EdLee wrote:...did you read J6 double hane ?
...
[/hide]
I will start with this one, as I noticed I have some trouble with double hane.
so the position is this one with
here instead of my actual playing at 'a'fact : I hardly play the double hane by fear to be cut so let's try to see what hapend if white cut...
white can cut me at 'a' or 'b', let see what happend, first with a cut at 'a'
I suppose I should play
in response to the cut. Now it seems that black should help both stones. but I suppose black should help the cutting stone (if not, why to cut...)I can then atari at 'a' or 'b', or extend at 'c', and here, I don't know how to decide what the best move is... My instinct tells me to play'c' but I cannot really explain why... Maybe I don't really see what atari will bring me, so playing a solid extension will be better here...
What should we take into consideration in a position like that one ? is
correct here...Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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EdLee
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Yes. I wish I have more solid data on this.oca wrote:fact : I hardly play the double hane by fear to be cut
But I have only anecdote evidence: adults around these levels have this fear.
I don't know about little kids around the same level.
My feeling is they are less likely to have this mental block.
For adults who play this way -- soft, scared, chicken (pick your favorite unpleasant description) --
you almost need to over-compensate: double hane like crazy and see what happens.
Of course, the correct answer is reading:
if it works, do it; if not, don't.
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oca
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Re: OCA's log
I learn joseki and tesuji, while I'm more and more thinking my problems are fear and being impatient... I may better improve if I try to address the root cause...
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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EdLee
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oca
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Re:
EdLee wrote:oca wrote:fact : I hardly play the double hane by fear to be cut
...
For adults who play this way -- soft, scared, chicken (pick your favorite unpleasant description) --
you almost need to over-compensate: double hane like crazy and see what happens.
Of course, the correct answer is reading:
if it works, do it; if not, don't.
I tried last night and that went fine... yahooo
!Whole game
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Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
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to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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EdLee
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oca
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Re: OCA's log
EdLee wrote:Hi oca,study what happens if you just play the nose tesuji M18 directly.
Hi Edlee,
Sure ! I should have played that nose tesuji !
EdLee wrote:not a double hane; just a normal hane, standard local shape.
oh... I see now, the first move is a kosumi, not hane... here is another try I played last night :
tried the counter mesure "play the double hane first, think after..."
so I played that 
I think that was not that bad, as it helped me to connect (well I didn't connected in the game :~, ( I didn't captured the stone in atari, I think that was a mistake, I should have captured that stone...)
The double hane would even be better with a stone at 'a', to theaten to cature the tree stones.
Whole game :
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Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216