Does go make you smarter?

General conversations about Go belong here.

Does go make you smarter?

Yes: Go has improved my abilities in other fields.
29
26%
Sort of: As Socrates said: "I know that I know nothing."
18
16%
No: I just learn more about go.
19
17%
No: I was already smart; my go ability is just evidence.
18
16%
No: I just spend less time doing something else that would make me smarter.
17
15%
Other: The question is too hard/I can't decide.
5
5%
Other: I prefer a semantical argument.
5
5%
 
Total votes: 111

User avatar
CarlJung
Lives in gote
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:10 pm
Rank: SDK
GD Posts: 0
KGS: CarlJung
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by CarlJung »

Suji wrote:With Go and Chess I've had to learn patience. I'm better with patience than I was two years ago, though that might be due to the fact that I'm getting older, and *hopefully* more mature.

I could go on, but I think I get your point that just because you improve at something doesn't mean you'll improve in other areas. IMHO you do improve in other areas, but if so I don't think one could accurately measure such improvement.

Here's a list (by no means extensive) of what one *could* improve by learning Go and/or Chess: Critical thinking, Math, Reading, Science, Problem Solving, and Thinking Under Pressure (due to time pressure).


Well put.

I agree that you can probably improve those areas by studying go. The thing that bothers me is when people attach too much meaning and make too wide generalizations from their favourite hobby. It's not just go, it happens whenever people spend much time on something. Some people really want their hobbies to have broader implications in life and society in general.

It's a game, and a fascinating one, and if studied long and hard can probably have some benefits in other areas (but hardly in relation to time spent). By studying go you get better at go. I believe if you settle with those expectations you can't go wrong. But if you are studying go in order to reap benefits elsewhere you will mostly be wasting time. There are probably much better ways to exercise those qualities.
Suji
Lives in gote
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 2:25 pm
Rank: DDK
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Sujisan 12 kyu
OGS: Sujisan 13 kyu
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Suji »

CarlJung wrote:
Suji wrote:With Go and Chess I've had to learn patience. I'm better with patience than I was two years ago, though that might be due to the fact that I'm getting older, and *hopefully* more mature.

I could go on, but I think I get your point that just because you improve at something doesn't mean you'll improve in other areas. IMHO you do improve in other areas, but if so I don't think one could accurately measure such improvement.

Here's a list (by no means extensive) of what one *could* improve by learning Go and/or Chess: Critical thinking, Math, Reading, Science, Problem Solving, and Thinking Under Pressure (due to time pressure).


Well put.

I agree that you can probably improve those areas by studying go. The thing that bothers me is when people attach too much meaning and make too wide generalizations from their favourite hobby. It's not just go, it happens whenever people spend much time on something. Some people really want their hobbies to have broader implications in life and society in general.

It's a game, and a fascinating one, and if studied long and hard can probably have some benefits in other areas (but hardly in relation to time spent). By studying go you get better at go. I believe if you settle with those expectations you can't go wrong. But if you are studying go in order to reap benefits elsewhere you will mostly be wasting time. There are probably much better ways to exercise those qualities.


Agreed.
My plan to become an SDK is here.
User avatar
Peter Hansmeier
Dies with sente
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:38 am
Rank: AGA 2d WBaduk 4d
GD Posts: 104
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 86 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Peter Hansmeier »

Learning languages and playing games like Go, chess, and bridge seem to help keep brains sharp longer later in life. Go may also reinforce things like concentration and competitive spirit in younger minds as well.
I am Tartuffe from GoDiscussions.com
User avatar
kibi
Beginner
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:06 pm
Rank: AGA 3K
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by kibi »

If concepts are tools for thinking, go has added many concepts to my vocabulary -- aji, miai, sabaki to name a few. I believe I am able to think thoughts that I could not without encountering these concepts, kind of like the limits mathematicians had before someone hit on the idea of "zero".
User avatar
palapiku
Lives in sente
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:25 pm
Rank: the k-word
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by palapiku »

kibi wrote:If concepts are tools for thinking, go has added many concepts to my vocabulary -- aji, miai, sabaki to name a few. I believe I am able to think thoughts that I could not without encountering these concepts, kind of like the limits mathematicians had before someone hit on the idea of "zero".

Should I prepare dinner or go buy take-out?

They're miai, so I'll just sit here and watch high dan games on KGS instead.
User avatar
Ahwahnee
Beginner
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:27 am
Rank: Looks like KGS 8k
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Ahwahnee
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Ahwahnee »

I recall an old saying, "If yer so smart, why ain't ya rich?"

It does seem that thinking in Go makes me ... play better Go. :-?
When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe. - John Muir
User avatar
Stefany93
Lives with ko
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:39 pm
Rank: KGS 8k
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Azumi93
Online playing schedule: When I am in a mood for Go :D
Location: Arkansas, USA
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Contact:

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Stefany93 »

Personely I think that nothing can make the person smart of dumb - you are born smart or not smart - like there is nothing that can make you beautiful.
I have met chess players that were several times champions and still they do not know what is the capital of Poland, or where Bulgaria is located. If you are born not smart (like me) you will be like that forever. The question remains which path you will chose - if you chose to be a criminal for example you will be a smart criminal but nothing more. But if you chose to be a well mannered citizen, you will be happy for the rest of your life. So it is up to any person, but by playing go or chess or both, won't make you smarter. Pufff, I wrote so much and I still didn't understand what I wrote :P
rubin427
Lives in gote
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:24 pm
GD Posts: 0
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Has thanked: 163 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by rubin427 »

Go is interesting to me because it has it's own ways of rewarding serious, sustained effort. The more effort I put into Go, the more I find myself willing to invest similar effort into other endeavors.

It's been a large net positive in my life.
User avatar
CarlJung
Lives in gote
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:10 pm
Rank: SDK
GD Posts: 0
KGS: CarlJung
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by CarlJung »

Pep talk?

Who are you and what have you done to the real Helel?
Suji
Lives in gote
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 2:25 pm
Rank: DDK
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Sujisan 12 kyu
OGS: Sujisan 13 kyu
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Suji »

Stefany93 wrote:Personely I think that nothing can make the person smart of dumb - you are born smart or not smart - like there is nothing that can make you beautiful.
I have met chess players that were several times champions and still they do not know what is the capital of Poland, or where Bulgaria is located. If you are born not smart (like me) you will be like that forever. The question remains which path you will chose - if you chose to be a criminal for example you will be a smart criminal but nothing more. But if you chose to be a well mannered citizen, you will be happy for the rest of your life. So it is up to any person, but by playing go or chess or both, won't make you smarter. Pufff, I wrote so much and I still didn't understand what I wrote :P


With all due respect, I disagree. I believe that "smart" can be learned. Of course, everyone is born with innate talents, but it's up to us how to use them. Also, if you aren't born with a talent, it does not mean that you can't acquire that talent. All it means is that talent is going to take you a longer time to learn than most people.
My plan to become an SDK is here.
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Aphelion »

Its interesting, a few years ago I would have agreed with Stefany, but now I'm beginning to suspect that whereas 'smart' cannot be learned, one can certainly become more stupid.
User avatar
CarlJung
Lives in gote
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:10 pm
Rank: SDK
GD Posts: 0
KGS: CarlJung
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by CarlJung »

Aphelion wrote:Its interesting, a few years ago I would have agreed with Stefany, but now I'm beginning to suspect that whereas 'smart' cannot be learned, one can certainly become more stupid.


And once you have become stupid, can you bring your smarts back?
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Aphelion »

I'm not sure, but I suspect it would be hard for a stupid person to extricate himself :lol: .
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by Marcus »

Aphelion wrote:I'm not sure, but I suspect it would be hard for a stupid person to extricate himself :lol: .


Yes, indeed. I have become stupid ... and now I need to find my smarts again. It's definitely not easy. :lol:
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: Does go make you smarter?

Post by topazg »

Helel wrote:Go and eat your stones orc face! :evil:

(I assume you meant me, and it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.)


Aside from orc face being an awesome insult, could this be the immovable helel ... rattled? ;)
Post Reply