interesting seki

macelee · Post by **macelee** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:11 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X @ . X . | $$ | X O O . . . . . O . O O . O X . O X O | $$ | O . O X X X X X . O X O . O X X X O . | $$ | O . . O O O O X X X X O . . O X . . O | $$ | O . O . . . . . X O O . . . O X O O . | $$ | O . O X O X X X . O . . . . O O X X X | $$ | . O X X O O O X . . . O X . O X O X . | $$ | . O . . . . . X . X X O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O . X O O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O X X . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . O O O O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X . X O O X . X . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O X O . X X O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X O O O X . . X O O O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X O X . O X O O X O X . . . | $$ | . . O X X X X O . O O X X X O X X . . | $$ | . . O O X O O O O O X X X O O O O X X | $$ | . . O X O . . O X X X X O O O X X . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O . O . O . O X X X | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This is the end position of a game from today's LG Cup qualifier. Very interesting seki.

The complete game is also very interesting: http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/46770

oren · Post by **oren** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:24 am

To make game a little easier to follow.

Pio2001 · Post by **Pio2001** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:04 am

If I understand well, the next moves would have been Black T15, White S16, isn't it ?

Bonobo · Post by **Bonobo** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:14 pm

Pio2001 wrote:If I understand well, the next moves would have been Black T15, White S16, isn't it ?

That’s what I also “tried” and then I saw that this would not change anything here.

MMaestro · Post by **MMaestro** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:37 pm

Bonobo wrote:
Pio2001 wrote:If I understand well, the next moves would have been Black T15, White S16, isn't it ?

That’s what I also “tried” and then I saw that this would not change anything here.

I believe it changes if white can give atari on the next move or not.

Bonobo · Post by **Bonobo** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:57 pm

MMaestro wrote:
Bonobo wrote:
Pio2001 wrote:If I understand well, the next moves would have been Black T15, White S16, isn't it ?

That’s what I also “tried” and then I saw that this would not change anything here.

I believe it changes if white can give atari on the next move or not.

Uhm, but 1) it’s B’s turn after that, and 2) any inside Atari there would also be a self-atari, no? What is it that I’m missing?

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:08 pm

Bonobo wrote:
MMaestro wrote:I believe it changes if white can give atari on the next move or not.

Uhm, but 1) it’s B’s turn after that, and 2) any inside Atari there would also be a self-atari, no? What is it that I’m missing?

What he's saying is that if Black doesn't play T15 (if he passes or plays anywhere else, for whatever reason), then White lives with atari at R16. So these are "must" plays. Black must play T15, to which White must respond with S16, or else it changes a lot. In other words, the seki is not finished yet, Black just resigned at this point.

Bonobo · Post by **Bonobo** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:23 am

xed_over wrote:
Bonobo wrote:
MMaestro wrote:I believe it changes if white can give atari on the next move or not.

Uhm, but 1) it’s B’s turn after that, and 2) any inside Atari there would also be a self-atari, no? What is it that I’m missing?

What he's saying is that if Black doesn't play T15 (if he passes or plays anywhere else, for whatever reason), then White lives with atari at R16. So these are "must" plays. Black must play T15, to which White must respond with S16, or else it changes a lot. In other words, the seki is not finished yet, Black just resigned at this point.

Ah, thanks. I had actually seen the possibility of the White R16 move and thought it was clear that B wouldn’t let it come to that.

Life In 19x19

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