I developed Online Go Anxiety AND Offline Go Anxiety

[tentano]

Last, a much more atavic aspect, rooted deep in the community, is the assumption that anyone should progress.

A lot of the more dedicated players like to dream of greatness in the nebulous future. A shared desire for self-improvement is always there in the background. I think it's also because there are so few players, that more casual board game fans don't pick up go at all and that leads to a lopsided environment.

But try playing casually with tournament chess players, and you'll see a similar pattern.

Why ? If a player can't devote a huge amount of time studying, but if he likes playing games from time to time against players of his own level, why should we judge that his level is "not good enough" ? Everyone has the right to enjoy playing games, and not everyone has the possibility, or vocation, to become a strong player.

This also has to do with how a lot of players expect they will grow more dull and less able to compete if they play weaker opponents. It's a vivid phobia as far as I can tell. It's quite rare to see a strong player in a "humour the kids" mood, playing even games against 20k or worse, just for fun. Even handicap games are quite uncommon.

Then there's the endemic paranoia, that a lower rated player may in fact be a lot stronger, because it's a dastardly sandbagger. Just imagine if you lose imaginary internet points to one of these!

[Bill Spight]

Try this next time you play...in calm positions don't play the 'best' move you find, play the second-best....at the end of the game you will probably see no difference in your playig strength.

(Quoting a chess grandmaster.)

That is really interesting. And it rings true - I have abunch of problems, but one of them is definitely over-thinking "calm" positions trying to find the best possible move.

First, go is generally a longer game than chess with finer gradations in results. If you play the second best move in calm positions in go, you could easily lose 1 stone in strength.

Second, one thing that Znosko-Borovsky said about chess also applies to go: "It is not a move, even the best move, that you must seek, but a realisable plan" (How Not to Play Chess). Make plans in calm positions. Then your plan will tell you where to play.

Thanks for your thoughts. Frankly, in my own experience, even a NON-realisable plan can make the difference. Working towards something gives a sense of coherence to moves even if your plan doen't get carried out on the board (because of pesky things like opponents .)

Yes. Znosko-Borovsky indicated as much, as I recall.

I feel that playing chess well often involves playing good, relevant multi-purpose moves for as long as they are productive and leaving the really commital ones until they are really needed.

I have no idea if that applies as well to Go, and would enjoy picking the two games apart to try to get a decent grip on Go, but perhaps better in another thread since I don't want to hijack this one.

That applies to go, as well. Perhaps even more than chess, given the size of the go board. First, multi-purpose moves are at a definite premium in go, especially in the opening. Second, go has the concept of miai in which the choice of equal (or nearly equal) alternatives is left to the opponent, and you get the other one. Playing miai at the strategic level is in part a question of style, but plans in go are often disjunctive. And the options offered to the opponent may not be all that equal. Third, many moves at go are probes, played with the aim of getting the opponent to make a commitment to one alternative or another.

[Bill Spight]

Hi,
I have been through this, though moderately. I think that there are several aspects in go anxiety.

One is the huge level difference between a complete beginner and an experienced player. At the beginning, I was worried about playing dead stones. A club player once told me that the last moves of my game were unuseful. I even remembered one of my very first games, where I eneded up playing several moves at the end of the yose, while my opponent kept passing. He seemed bored. I also remember being surprised reading some commented games, where I saw that one player should resign while the chuban didn't even start.

Sounds like an amateur game or commentator.

After that, I was worried during my other games. Am I wasting my opponent's time ? Should I resign now ? Am I playing dead stones ?

It is too bad that you did not get better treatment as a beginner.

Small rant:

Beginners play dead stones. No big deal.
Beginners should never resign. They learn by playing on, even if there is no chance of winning.
All games with beginners are teaching games. If that is a waste of your time, don't do it, or change your attitude.

The rules were also a bit confusing.

An unfortunate side effect of written rules, I am afraid.

I came over this feeling playing lots of fast games versus the computer. Once I could see wether a group is dead or alive, and not miss an atari anymore, I was much more confident.


Another aspect is the oriental tradition associated with the game. It is considered as impolite to play the first move on the wrong side of the board,

In Japan, where I believe that the custom of playing the first move in the top right corner evolved, if a Western beginner started off by playing somewhere else, most players would just shrug it off. They would not expect a Westerner to know Japanese etiquette. Those who did not shrug it off would simply tell the beginner about the choice of corners.

it is considered impolite to keep playing a lost game.

That's a Western thing.

Some even pretend that it is impolite to overplay.

That's ridiculous.

Last, a much more atavic aspect, rooted deep in the community, is the assumption that anyone should progress.

IMX, most players do make progress for eight to ten years. Whether they should or not. And most players want to progress. There is always something to learn. I have never observed anyone belittled because they did not progress.

[tentano]

I have never observed anyone belittled because they did not progress.

One of the things which keeps coming up, although quite rarely, is that one of the ways in which Japanese griefers try to put me down is by telling me that players like me don't know how to play, and that some random move proves how stupid I am.

A direct assault on self-confidence, which I assume wouldn't happen if it never worked.

One of the things they like to throw in to really drive it home is "people like you can't progress".

Other choice quotes from my encounters with Japanese griefers:

"Do you have any idea how rude it is to pretend you're X kyu?"
"Do you even know the rules?"
"Don't you think it's about time you gave up on go?"

The implication behind all of this is that lacking progress can really hurt a player's confidence.

[Krama]

I have never observed anyone belittled because they did not progress.

One of the things which keeps coming up, although quite rarely, is that one of the ways in which Japanese griefers try to put me down is by telling me that players like me don't know how to play, and that some random move proves how stupid I am.

A direct assault on self-confidence, which I assume wouldn't happen if it never worked.

One of the things they like to throw in to really drive it home is "people like you can't progress".

Other choice quotes from my encounters with Japanese griefers:

"Do you have any idea how rude it is to pretend you're X kyu?"
"Do you even know the rules?"
"Don't you think it's about time you gave up on go?"

The implication behind all of this is that lacking progress can really hurt a player's confidence.

on which server do you play? I have never encountered a rude japanese player, but if I did I would just tell them... "Ching chong chang, and then some other very rude stuff I can't write here because some people will get butthurt."

[tentano]

I've seen them on IGS and KGS. They only really try if I use a Japanese-sounding username, though.

And they do it in Japanese.

So you need to meet a few conditions, before they bother.

If they're convinced you're a barbarian from overseas, they'll just revert to the less elegant "YOU SUCK!" and a thesaurus of american expletives, not always used well.

[Boidhre]

I've seen them on IGS and KGS. They only really try if I use a Japanese-sounding username, though.

And they do it in Japanese.

So you need to meet a few conditions, before they bother.

If they're convinced you're a barbarian from overseas, they'll just revert to the less elegant "YOU SUCK!" and a thesaurus of american expletives, not always used well.

My strong suspicion is that you're talking to teenagers or younger.

[tentano]

Well, that might be true, but I've had the misfortune of meeting people in their 40-60s who weren't acting their age at all.

Infantile behaviour has no age limit that I know of. Some people just get older, and skip mental maturity.

Blaming all griefing behaviour on young people seems a bit lazy, and unfair.

[Bill Spight]

I've seen them on IGS and KGS. They only really try if I use a Japanese-sounding username, though.

And they do it in Japanese.

So you need to meet a few conditions, before they bother.

If they're convinced you're a barbarian from overseas, they'll just revert to the less elegant "YOU SUCK!" and a thesaurus of american expletives, not always used well.

I don't play online, but I rather expect that such verbal abuse violates the TOSes of IGS and KGS.

[Boidhre]

Well, that might be true, but I've had the misfortune of meeting people in their 40-60s who weren't acting their age at all.

Infantile behaviour has no age limit that I know of. Some people just get older, and skip mental maturity.

Blaming all griefing behaviour on young people seems a bit lazy, and unfair.

You most certainly meet adults who should know better behaving like this but if the age demographic for an activity online is lower you usually encounter more of this stuff.

[tentano]

I don't play online, but I rather expect that such verbal abuse violates the TOSes of IGS and KGS.

Oh sure, and I report them, too. They get warned or just banned. That's why they are so rare.

[Krama]

So I think it is happening to me again. First time somewhere a year ago I had the same problem because I was afraid of losing the game.

Nowadays it's not that I am afraid of losing (sometimes I do it on purpose just to test myself) but of playing bad moves.

Even if I win and later in the review I figure out that I played badly I get all emotional and angry at myself.

I can't play online go anymore since I am constantly afraid of making bad moves, I just can't let go of that.

But I feel like I am working on myself since I no longer care about losing my games.

Any ideas on how to beat the bad move anxiety?

[often]

If playing Go isn't fun, then stop playing. It's as simple as that. Go isn't our job, it's a game we play.

Most people that are so concerned with losing or playing bad moves are more worried about their rank than the moves they play.

Viewed another way, at your proper rank, you're going to win half and lose half of your games.
If you're anxious about losing, you're going to be unhappy at least 50% of the time.
If you're anxious about bad moves, you're going to be unhappy even more of that because everybody plays bad moves.

[Inkwolf]

I seem to have lost most of my online go anxiety.

My advice:
#1: don't get too hung up on rank. It's fun going up and depressing going down, but you have to remember to play for the sake of playing, not just to gain rank.

#2. When you play a terrible move, remember that the other player is probably not thinking "What a moron." They are probably thinking, "That was a mistake, and I KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT BECAUSE i AM SO AWESOME!!!" You haven't made a fool of yourself, you've made someone else feel brilliant by comparison. Just feel happy for your opponent, instead of humiliated for yourself.

Hope that helps. ^^

[Bill Spight]

#2. When you play a terrible move, remember that the other player is probably not thinking "What a moron." They are probably thinking, "That was a mistake, and I KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT BECAUSE i AM SO AWESOME!!!"

They may also be thinking, "I didn't see that move. What is he up to? What did I miss?"