61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

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Redundant
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My stone there leaves some nasty agi. If I get stronger in the area, I can cut his two space extension.

I'm approaching this corner, as the right side is more interesting than the left, due to my shimari being "bigger" than my enclosure on the left.

I also considered making a box moyo like this, but it's gote. I'm not very concerned with white splitting my extension on the top. It starts a running fight, but I'll be the one profiting on the right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Zwergesel
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by Zwergesel »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . 1 W , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The right is more important than the bottom, at the moment, so I will use this joseki to grow there! The question is, do I jump to a after the sequence or do I complete my shimari at b? I don't want black to get either point :-|
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . B W , O . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . B . . . X B W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . 1 O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . X 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I always hate this joseki for white. The shape is kind of awkward, and I get a nice settled group. I feel that white should have pincered, as his opposing komoku would then work together. This joseki stifles the direction of play of the lower left.
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I made my choice: Shimari it is!
I can't allow black to approach my lower left stone, because I would want to pincer it, but my pincer is already pre-pincered by :b19: ! And giving black something like this seems way too big:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 2 . 6 . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . 5 3 4 . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He left this joseki unfinished. He needed another move to prevent me from getting an attack. This move aims at the cut. I'm not sure if I should have gone one lower for this attack. After this attack, I want to get L15 for the possibility of a box moyo plus a double wing.
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure, if I should really contact a weak stone, but this move fixes the cut (the cut does not work now, but might work later) and gives me good shape! I considered a pincer, but didn't want to be pushed into his corner! Let's see how he answers! I expect Q7!
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm staying light here.
Possible follow ups:

Bad: Crawling on the second line.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm fine with this, It makes the right big for me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This also makes the right big for me, and I'm not worried about the cut.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by Zwergesel »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Pushing out in sente! I don't want to get surrounded!
If he ignores this move I have this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . 2 X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . 1 X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 6 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Redundant
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by Redundant »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . 1 X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Only move here.
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by Zwergesel »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Biggest point as far as I can see! I'm worried about the right though! It grows too big, I might have to invade soon!
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by Redundant »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm fine with this result. The left side was uninteresting to me, given that my upper left doesn't have good development potential. Also, he chose a joseki in the bottom right that emphasizes the right side, but then did not follow up there. Now I get to threaten this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . 3 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
dfan
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Can someone stronger than me evaluate the marked exchange? It feels to me like Black has helped White protect the cut for free. On the other hand it might be worth something territorially.
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by Zwergesel »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . W 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel that I'm falling behind in points! I need to reduce his right side!
Moves I thought about (in no particular order):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . a . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X g . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . h d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . f . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a: I think both this and the follow-up are sente and it gives me influence to negate his moyo!
b: The invasion destroys more of his territory, but if he jumps out a fight will develop which favors him due to the big right side!
c: This is sente and reduces a bit! I also want to avoid him playing there, so that's probably my next move!
d: I thought about this earlier and if his last move wasn't there, I think this would have worked well to live on the right!
e: Threatens to enclose his corner and grows the left, but he can invade easily and the move is not sente!
f: Too small to play it yet, but will be big later
g: I could try this move and make sabaki, but I think it's too early
h: This peep might work as a reduction! After peeping I would jump out with the keima!
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by Redundant »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , 3 W 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He rightly reduces here, but I feel like 30 is an overplay. I'm going to start a fight here if he hanes. Otherwise, I can separate his reduction.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , 3 W 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . 4 5 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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daniel_the_smith
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Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Wow, I would really hate to play m16 as white... it fixes all kinds of problems for black.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
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