Aliases and anonymity online

[UnclMartin]

On KGS they can just ban the account, or they can be more severe and ban the IP too if they want to prevent that human from reconnecting with other accounts (unless they are clever enough to use a VPN), though as you say it can ban many other innocent humans too.

No. When KGS admins ban a user, the server blocks both the user name and the IP address. The admins have no choice. However, in cases where it was discovered that this resulted in other, innocent users being banned, the ban may be released.

This has not only affected humans. There was an incident where an admin kicked a bot that malfunctioning. It was one of a group of bots using the same IP address. They all got kicked, causing interruption of several games.

[UnclMartin]

... Should admins investigating it find out his other accounts, and should they reveal this information? ...

... Or how about admins using the threat to reveal aliases against the human's wishes, is this an acceptable way to enforce the behaviour they want, or an abuse of power similar to blackmail?

I regard it as an abuse of power.

At KGS, it is against policy for admins to reveal alternate accounts, even of abusive users. It is part of the policy of respecting privacy of KGS users. Except KGS admins do share that information with other admins when discussing abusive users or admin candidates.

In some cases, admins might publicly and quickly act against a repeat offender logging in as a guest, and explain their decision was based on the user's history with other accounts. But, the admin will not reveal what those other accounts are. I have also privately warned victims of abuse that a certain banned user has been known to return with different guest accounts to harass the victim again.

[EdLee]

Let's say a human has a slow and a blitz account, and is ranked quite a bit weaker at blitz. But then they play a regular game with the blitz account and severely beat their opponent, who then complains he is a sandbagger. Is this a valid complaint?

No, it's not a valid complaint. This isn't an issue of having two accounts. Even if you have only a blitz account, and sometimes play slow games, the same thing can happen.

The problem isn't that you're a sandbagger, but rather that there's a single rank to represent two types of games. People have discussed having separate ranks for blitz and slow games in the past. Though, honestly, I don't think there will be a difference of more than a couple stones.

Just a minute. Why is it not a valid complaint.

Since you freshly returned from the US Open, let's use it as an analogy.
AGA, like KGS and IGS, also has only one rating that does not differentiate between time settings.

For slow settings -- say US Open, (90 mins. + 5 x 30 secs), or (90 mins. + 5 x 1 min.), etc. -- suppose you real level is AGA 1 dan. You know this.
For faster settings -- say (30 mins. + 5 x 30 secs) like at Cotsen's -- further suppose your real level is AGA 3 kyu. That's 2-3 stones difference. You also know this.

( In case you're wondering if that's an exaggerated example, it is not. I easily drop 2 to 3 or even more stones from slow to blitz. )

So you go to enough Cotsen-ish weekend AGA tourneys, with the faster settings, and get a solid AGA 3 kyu rating.

Then, you show up at a US Open, with a much longer time setting, and you know your real level at this setting is now AGA 1 dan.

But you choose to enter the US Open with your solid AGA 3kyu rating. Guess what ? You clean up your opponents rated at AGA 3 kyu.
You win a trophy and some baby prize $ for your division.

Yes, you can argue, as you have, that this is not your problem -- it is merely AGA's fault/inadequacy for not differentiating between time settings.

Really ?

[Anonymong]

Thanks for the responses. It appears that whilst opinion is divided on the degree of sandbagging of playing at different strengths with different situations/accounts, people agree the privacy of aliases should be respected, even if punishments apply to all accounts (on which mixed views).

UnclMartin, regarding KGS bans always including IP, has that changed? I thought I got banned from KGS many years ago and managed to reconnect with a different username, but maybe my memory is faulty or my connection's dynamic IP had changed. Glad to hear KGS has a policy of not revealing aliases, I think other servers should follow suit.

daal, as another example of varying strengths, let's say someone plays casually on KGS at 5k (at some normal time setting). They play another 5k and make some big mistake and die and are fifty points down. They then resolve to concentrate and play their best, play at a 2k level, complicate the position and manage to get a 55 point swing to win by 5 points. Did they behave wrongly? How about if that same person is playing a game in their usual casual mode, but the opponent in the first joseki tries some cheeky trick play. Affronted, the user then engages concentration mode and plays like a 2k and crushes the hamete and proceeds to steamroller the opponent to win by 55 points. Did they do something wrong?

EdLee, I think the more likely scenario when that AGA rated 3k turns up and says "Hey, I'm really 1d" is for the tournament organisers to roll their eyes, sigh "another person who can't accept their lack of strength" and enter them as 3k even if the person wants to enter as 1d, unless of course he can offer some solid evidence of his 1d status.

[mhlepore]

Just a minute. Why is it not a valid complaint.

Since you freshly returned from the US Open, let's use it as an analogy.
AGA, like KGS and IGS, also has only one rating that does not differentiate between time settings.

For slow settings -- say US Open, (90 mins. + 5 x 30 secs), or (90 mins. + 5 x 1 min.), etc. -- suppose you real level is AGA 1 dan. You know this.
For faster settings -- say (30 mins. + 5 x 30 secs) like at Cotsen's -- further suppose your real level is AGA 3 kyu. That's 2-3 stones difference. You also know this.
...So you go to enough Cotsen-ish weekend AGA tourneys, with the faster settings, and get a solid AGA 3 kyu rating.

Then, you show up at a US Open, with a much longer time setting, and you know your real level at this setting is now AGA 1 dan.

But you choose to enter the US Open with your solid AGA 3kyu rating. Guess what ? You clean up your opponents rated at AGA 3 kyu.
You win a trophy and some baby prize $ for your division.

Yes, you can argue, as you have, that this is not your problem -- it is merely AGA's fault/inadequacy for not differentiating between time settings.

Really ?

Suppose I live in Colorado, and capitalize at the Colorado Springs Go Congress because my opponents were not adjusted to the altitude.

Suppose I don't tolerate heat well, and find myself living in a Congress dorm without AC in the middle of an unexpected heat wave.

Suppose I have a depth perception problem, and the large Ing stones at the Go Congress make it hard for me to see the board, whereas in my local tournaments we use flat yunzi stones which I have great comfort using.

Suppose I have had to keep working for my employer remotely while at prior Go Congresses, but now find myself at a Congress when I can devote all my attention to Go and not have any worries of work on my mind.

Suppose some of your KGS games are played while you are alone and free to concentrate, and some are played when your family is in the room distracting you.

Suppose some of your KGS games are in the morning when you are fresh, and some are at the end of the evening when you are tired.

The point is, time setting is one of many variables that can affect play, and it seems much easier to just have one rating than to say "well, it depends - did I have sausage or bacon for breakfast?"

[Abyssinica]

If people are going to regard different strengths at different time settings as sandbagging, why don't you regard someone who played tournament X in a bad mental state and then a few weeks later tournament Y in a well-rested, good mind state as sandbagging?

[daal]

daal, as another example of varying strengths, let's say someone plays casually on KGS at 5k (at some normal time setting). They play another 5k and make some big mistake and die and are fifty points down. They then resolve to concentrate and play their best, play at a 2k level, complicate the position and manage to get a 55 point swing to win by 5 points. Did they behave wrongly? How about if that same person is playing a game in their usual casual mode, but the opponent in the first joseki tries some cheeky trick play. Affronted, the user then engages concentration mode and plays like a 2k and crushes the hamete and proceeds to steamroller the opponent to win by 55 points. Did they do something wrong?

No, there is no deception involved in either of these scenarios. It is reasonable to expect that a 5k is perfectly capable of making dan level moves as well as ddk moves. What he does most of the time however is to make 5k moves. This is different than playing at a time setting in which most of the time he can make 3k moves, but insists on playing as a 5k.

[UnclMartin]

...
UnclMartin, regarding KGS bans always including IP, has that changed? I thought I got banned from KGS many years ago and managed to reconnect with a different username, but maybe my memory is faulty or my connection's dynamic IP had changed. Glad to hear KGS has a policy of not revealing aliases, I think other servers should follow suit. ...

During the period I was an admin, KGS bans always included IP address. As far as I know, it was that way for several years before I became an admin. It is possible it was different when the server's ban handling methods were very new.

WMS placed an upper limit on the amount of time a ban would be in effect. He did this because he was aware that many ISP's provide dynamic IP addresses, and the longer a ban was in effect, the more likely an innocent person would be caught in another user's ban.

[EdLee]

mhlepore, Abyssinica,

Yes, it's universally acknowledged that condensing billions of neurons to a single digit number has its limitations. That entirely misses the point.

In front of you: two ratings -- 1 dan and 3 kyu.

Give certain conditions, including what sausages you had for breakfast, or if you had a fight with your partner, you on average play at 1 dan level.

Under other conditions, you on average play at 3 kyu level.

You go to a tourney. Given the conditions of this tourney, if you enter as 1 dan, you know or expect to play at 1 dan level.

If you enter as 3 kyu, you know or expect to still play at 1 dan level, with a significant chance of cleaning up.

Do you feel you should be congratulated for entering as 3 kyu given that you know or expect you will play at 1 dan level at this tourney ?

[Abyssinica]

mhlepore, Abyssinica,

Yes, it's universally acknowledged that condensing billions of neurons to a single digit number has its limitations. That entirely misses the point.

I just see people complaining about some people having different strengths at different time settings. What's the point in YOUR analogy? That it's somehow wrong to have different strengths depending on your state of being and how you play?

The way I see it is that having different strengths at different time settings is like having different strengths at different states of mind. Yet if someone always plays their rated games in a bad mood, suddenly when they play in a good mood they're now sandbagging and they should be chastised for it?

[Abyssinica]

You go to a tourney. Given the conditions of this tourney, if you enter as 1 dan, you know or expect to play at 1 dan level.

If you enter as 3 kyu, you know or expect to still play at 1 dan level, with a significant chance of cleaning up.

Do you feel you should be congratulated for entering as 3 kyu given that you know or expect you will play at 1 dan level at this tourney ?

I thought that what rank you were entering the tourney at was preset before hand. I.e, you had an AGA rating before and that's what you were pre-entered as. NOT that the rank was self-selected at the time of joining.

[EdLee]

I thought that what rank you were entering the tourney at was preset before hand. I.e, you had an AGA rating before and that's what you were pre-entered as. NOT that the rank was self-selected at the time of joining.

Hi Abyssinica,

Have you been to any AGA rated tourneys ?
(Actual question; not rhetorical or sarcastic; .)

It's both. Please re-read post 18 for one scenario.
I believe the touney director also has the discretion or power to enter a person at a certain rating, given certain conditions.

Anyway, if you still don't understand my analogy, or you disagree, or you feel everything is just fine to enter at 2-3 stones lower than your expected level at a tourney or a rated online game, hey, I don't have anything more to discuss with you on this topic. Enjoy.

[EdLee]

Oh, mhlepore, Abyssinica,

Could you give a concrete example of what you consider to be sandbagging in Go, and the reasons.

From what you've written here so far, I'm not certain you believe there is such a thing as sandbagging in Go, or do you ?

[EdLee]

I think the more likely scenario when that AGA rated 3k turns up and says "Hey, I'm really 1d" is for the tournament organisers to roll their eyes, sigh "another person who can't accept their lack of strength" and enter them as 3k even if the person wants to enter as 1d, unless of course he can offer some solid evidence of his 1d status.

That's not the scenario. Yes, your scenario actually happens, quite often in fact. I was referring to an opposite of that scenario.

[Abyssinica]

Have you been to any AGA rated tourneys ?
(Actual question; not rhetorical or sarcastic; .)

It's both. Please re-read post 18 for one scenario.
I believe the touney director also has the discretion or power to enter a person at a certain rating, given certain conditions.

Anyway, if you still don't understand my analogy, or you disagree, or you feel everything is just fine to enter at 2-3 stones lower than your expected level at a tourney or a rated server game, hey, I don't have anything more to discuss with you on this topic. Enjoy.

No, so I thought we were talking about a hypothetical tournament. Your analogy is fine for me in the case of someone being able to enter the tournament at whatever rank they desire, but I don't much care for it if the rank they entered the tournament with was the one that they had built up from prior results. Say, they had a bad month but still decided to play in tournaments so they were at their 3k level for that period of time.

My point is that I don't believe that various changes in someone's true rank/strength based on time settings, state of mind, or just their physical health counts as sandbagging if the situation occurs where they're a few stones stronger than the average.