The significance of non-human life

[Bantari]

Did not have a chance to read every post, just some general remarks, stuff that came to my head while skimming.

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I wonder if it ever occurred to those apparently non-brainwashed folks that they actually are brainwashed into thinking that everybody who disagrees with them is brainwashed? This is the only reason I can see for dismissal out of hand anything not fitting into the given viewpoint. Its like with crazy people, they never suspect themselves but rather think the rest of the world is crazy. Most conspiracy nuts and religious fanatics I ever met did fit that hypothesis rather nicely.

There are so many roots of dogma and hypocrisy in the world. One of the greatest is: anything stated by source X is wrong, just because they were proven to be wrong once/often before. Or: the source is always wrong because it is funded by somebody with agenda (in this case - pretty much *all* research would be wrong.)

Example?

• Anti tobacco ads and information. There is huge money in anti-tobacco movement and big agendas, and yet we cannot derive from that that all this info is lies and that tobacco is healthy. There are many other examples like that.

Personally, I consider myself very cynical, but there should also be a limit to cynicism. Certain things you hear in the media are true and right, even when all you listen to is the Fox channel, surprising as it might be.

PS>
I was born and grew up under a communist system, with one of the most extensive and blatant propaganda machines in the world. But now, after many years of living elsewhere - I can see that even the communist propaganda was right about quite a few things, even though we all rejected every single word at the time, just because of where these words came from and what was the agenda behind them. Well, we were wrong sometimes. Not always, but enough to make me think. There is a lesson in that somewhere, I am sure.

So I agree with DrStraw when he says that there is no substitute for independent thinking.
In my book, rejecting something because of the source or agenda is as bad as accepting it in without looking at the source or agenda.

[tekesta]

I ought to add my own words to this thread

It's been established that human beings can never live apart from nature. This alone makes it important for humans to respect other forms of life. This goes even for practical situations. Below I submit a link to a design philosophy that takes into account different forms of life.

http://www.zeri.org/ZERI/Five_Design_Principles.html

From what I've read in this thread, some vegans approach their lifestyle more from a standpoint of ideological purity than from one of practicality. Those living in the subtropics and tropics can live almost entirely from vegetables, depending on choice. Those in humid continental and other climate zones depend on animal products to compensate for the nutritional deficiencies of their vegetable diets. I respect the choice of a vegan to avoid use of animal products entirely, but to see others as inferior because they eat meat or dairy does smack of self-indulgent fantasy. As well, we should not ignore the fact that, even in a civilization so materially and technologically advanced as ours, we are still just as dependent on nature as previous ones. To think otherwise is to condemn ourselves to death by ignorance. In the long term, only those civilizations that respect and coexist with the natural environment, while meeting the needs of its human inhabitants, will be viable and long-lived. Seeing and recognizing human beings as being part of nature, instead of being apart from it, is the first step in that direction.

I eat meat as well as vegetables. However, in some locales fresh fruits and vegetables are hard to come by, so often meat and other animal products are the only choice. One should take into account that any market carries only as much produce as its infrastructure can supply. In some markets the produce comes from hundreds of Km away, whereas in other markets much of the produce comes from only 5 or 10 Km away.

Animals raised for meat should be allowed to live their lives in as natural for them a state as possible, since this results in meat that is of relatively high quality. Maybe not good enough for a 5-star restaurant, but at least safe for human consumption.

[tchan001]

I don't think of Monsanto as saviours of the world. I think of them of a company that provides a product and tries to make a profit doing so. No different from, say, Google or Walmart.

I wonder if Google or Walmart operate like this
http://sustainablepulse.com/2013/07/13/ ... fied-corn/
http://sustainablepulse.com/2014/03/04/ ... gmo-study/

[DrStraw]

I don't think of Monsanto as saviours of the world. I think of them of a company that provides a product and tries to make a profit doing so. No different from, say, Google or Walmart.

I wonder if Google or Walmart operate like this
http://sustainablepulse.com/2013/07/13/ ... fied-corn/
http://sustainablepulse.com/2014/03/04/ ... gmo-study/

Thanks for the link to that website. I had not seen it before.

[tchan001]

1. A study by Eric Seralini. Seralini is widely known for his flawed and biased studies. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9ralini_affair

http://www.gmoseralini.org/seralini-rel ... -watchdog/

And despite all the perils for a scientist to publish criticism against the product of industrial giants, another brave scientist presents his hypothesis on the famous pesticide.
http://sustainablepulse.com/2014/03/24/ ... -interview

What qualities does Glyphosate have which could make it into a killer of so many people? Is Glyphosate alone the reason for the outbreak of CKDu?

The strong metal chelating property of glyphosate is the key factor. Glyphosate was first patented as a chelating agent, wetting agent and biologically active compound. It was initially used as a descaling agent to clean out calcium and other mineral deposits in pipes and boilers of residential and commercial hot water systems. Descaling agents are effective metal binders, which grab on to Calcium, Magnesium and heavy metals to make the metal water soluble and easily removable. Later, Monsanto acquired the chemical and obtained a patent for its herbicidal properties. Once glyphosate is combined with a metal, it does not follow the normal degradation pathway and remains in the environment or biological systems for a long time. Glyphosate alone is a weak nephrotoxic substance. When it combines with arsenic or heavy metal, its nephrotoxic property is enhanced a thousand times.

Glyphosate alone is not the cause for CKDu but, it seems to have acquired the ability to destroy the renal tissues of thousands of farmers when it forms complexes with nephrotoxic metals.

I'd make an educated guess that we won't be getting much calcium or magnesium from GMO corn associated with this pesticide.

Not that the EPA hadn't talked about the potential health problems already
http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants ... hosate.cfm

What are glyphosate's health effects?
Some people who drink water containing glyphosate well in excess of the maximum contaminant level (MCL) for many years could experience problems with their kidneys or reproductive difficulties.

And look, some small farmer actually won a suit against the company for bad business practices.
http://sustainablepulse.com/2014/01/23/ ... al-victory

[tchan001]

http://theantimedia.org/california-just ... r-causing/
California Just Announced It Will Label Monsanto’s Roundup as Cancer Causing

[Shaddy]

That label is on Starbucks in California. Maybe there's someone here who still believes in it, but I doubt it.