PlaySlow

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:44 pm

Another game of me at tygem. I was White this game..
I got a few questions only although i am sure i did a ton of mistakes.. Especially in the endgame. But after 5 straight losses due to simple reading errors it's good to win..
Edit: We counted W+2.5 at the end so he resigned.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:48 pm

Hi PlaySlow,

:w28:

OK for these levels, but he ignored your approach; this feels a little soft.
Did you consider to double approach his corner ?

:w32:

No. Either connect solidly E3, push up F4, or extend G3. Not this hane.

:b33:

You got lucky. He should've punished you right away -- push at E3 then cut (you have 3 cuts!) -- your shape collapses here.

:w36:

Wrong shape. Your N3 group is not settled either; so each side has a weak group.
Your C shoulder hit is better than your game move.

:w40:

A right idea, I think. But it feels "pushing from behind". Maybe one higher, at L6, is better ? Get in front of your opponent.

:b47:

Strange shape. At least L7.

:w60:

You HAVE sente (at :b59:

). Think about this for a moment.
If you tenuki directly on :w60:

, B cannot get that excellent eye shape in the game.

:white:

120 Pass. Do you need 3 eyes to live ?

mitsun · Post by **mitsun** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:21 pm

What is the meaning behind :w16:

(N15)? One purpose is to create or expand a moyo along the right side. B promptly squashed that plan with his next move (R8). If that was all there was to your move, then this would be a bad exchange. But there is a good followup in another direction. This vital point is big enough to play right away, or at least very soon. Both players left this situation alone for too long. It would still have been an excellent point to take when you suggested it 50 moves later.

:b21:

is usually not played this early, so it is probably not a good move, but I am not sure there is any great punishment to be found. The game sequence gives W perfect shape and leaves B somewhat overconcentrated, so you should be satisfied. You could try something drastic like Q5-R5-R6 to punish B for not connecting here. If B simply connects at R4, you connect at Q6 for a great result. Try playing out some of the more difficult continuations and see if you like the results.

:b27:

seems greedy. The W approach at F3 was not an overplay. If B responds normally at C6, and W then comes back to J4, W would not have too much territory here. So I would look for a more aggressive response than simply jumping into the corner. A double approach would be quite playable, as Ed suggested. Or simply jump to F5, making miai of D6 and J5.

For similar reasons, :w32:

should be F4. :b35:

should also be F4 -- just look how flat and small and inefficient the W position becomes if B presses here a few times in sente (giving up the J3 stone, which would have earned an honorable death).

:w36:

is still the right idea, but it is a shame to have strengthened B so much on the left before this move. No chance for a double attack now.

:w40:

at J7 would be interesting. B might have a hard time surviving this attack. Note that even though B is strong along the right side, you do have some forcing moves like R7 and Q5 to gain extra strength.

The exchange :w48:

-

was bad, as it hurt the lower left corner. There is now a severe weakness at E2, though neither player seems to have noticed for quite some time.

:w60:

is a nice tesuji worth remembering, but in this case just igoring the B move would be even better. Was B really threatening anything? And if you answered simply at L3, I suspect B would have replied, letting you keep sente.

For :w66:

you suggested a few moves. "A" would be very good, as would a similar extension in the other direction. "B" would be superb, finally making good use of your N15 stone. "C" and "D" both seem too slow, as both B and W center groups are alive, so there is no attacking purpose.

Another idea would be to look at the B group on the left side and think whether you can profit by attacking there. C8 looks like a nice invasion point, backed up by your stones above. If your reading says that this move does not work directly, would a preparatory play at C12 make it work? Maybe you could exchange C12 for D8 in sente, then come back to get one of the other large moves. Look again at this invasion around move 96, when W has become much stronger outside.

For :w70:

I think I would just play E17, taking the corner profit and preventing :b69:

from making a base. W should then do fine in any fighting. B probably has to connect underneath at K18 (which the game move did not prevent).

:w92:

is a strong move, but only if W is willing to fight the ko. This would be a good time to pause and count the game, and also to count large ko threats for both sides. Tenuki is also a good option, saving you a full move if B gets nervous and defends before you start the ko.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:56 pm

Mitsun and Ed make great points about opening and middle game. This game however was won in the endgame. Why and where?

At 174 White takes the biggest point left, which was the last of the 5 major endgame moves discussed at 132. This secures the game.
Both had opportunities to grab the move and the game.

This is a very good endgame strategy: try to identify the 5 biggest remaining points and grab 3 of them.

Detailed discussion from 132 to end:

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:55 am

EdLee wrote:Hi PlaySlow,

OK for these levels, but he ignored your approach; this feels a little soft.
Did you consider to double approach his corner ?
PS: To be honest I do not study double approach so i always jump to 3-3. In the February i'll study double approach too i guess.

No. Either connect solidly E3, push up F4, or extend G3. Not this hane.
PS: Didn't know about that, now i learned, 3 cuts is a bit much..
You got lucky. He should've punished you right away -- push at E3 then cut (you have 3 cuts!) -- your shape collapses here.

Wrong shape. Your N3 group is not settled either; so each side has a weak group.
Your C shoulder hit is better than your game move.
PS: Understood!
A right idea, I think. But it feels "pushing from behind". Maybe one higher, at L6, is better ? Get in front of your opponent.
PS: Afraid to be cut in game.
Strange shape. At least L7.

You HAVE sente (at ). Think about this for a moment.
If you tenuki directly on , B cannot get that excellent eye shape in the game.

120 Pass. Do you need 3 eyes to live ?

I didnt think i got 3 eyes at that moment, thought i got a false eye at the bottom^-_-^, silly of me:)

Thanks for the comments!

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:08 am

mitsun wrote:What is the meaning behind (N15)? One purpose is to create or expand a moyo along the right side. B promptly squashed that plan with his next move (R8). If that was all there was to your move, then this would be a bad exchange. But there is a good followup in another direction. This vital point is big enough to play right away, or at least very soon. Both players left this situation alone for too long. It would still have been an excellent point to take when you suggested it 50 moves later.
PS: To be honest i wanted to threaten to make a big moyo at right and to block him at N17 at the same time. I remember the joseki ends with either N16 or N15 or M17 in some cases. I did want to tenuki there but didnt.

seems greedy. The W approach at F3 was not an overplay. If B responds normally at C6, and W then comes back to J4, W would not have too much territory here. So I would look for a more aggressive response than simply jumping into the corner. A double approach would be quite playable, as Ed suggested. Or simply jump to F5, making miai of D6 and J5.
PS: I will study double approach variations!

at J7 would be interesting. B might have a hard time surviving this attack. Note that even though B is strong along the right side, you do have some forcing moves like R7 and Q5 to gain extra strength.
PS: Didnt think of those forcing moves, i'll try some variations like this when i got home surely.
The exchange - was bad, as it hurt the lower left corner. There is now a severe weakness at E2, though neither player seems to have noticed for quite some time.
PS: Hmm, i didnt notice it in game. I have read it out and decided it's not a weakness,i'll try again.
is a nice tesuji worth remembering, but in this case just igoring the B move would be even better. Was B really threatening anything? And if you answered simply at L3, I suspect B would have replied, letting you keep sente.
PS: True, he'd have replied.
For you suggested a few moves. "A" would be very good, as would a similar extension in the other direction. "B" would be superb, finally making good use of your N15 stone. "C" and "D" both seem too slow, as both B and W center groups are alive, so there is no attacking purpose.

Another idea would be to look at the B group on the left side and think whether you can profit by attacking there. C8 looks like a nice invasion point, backed up by your stones above. If your reading says that this move does not work directly, would a preparatory play at C12 make it work? Maybe you could exchange C12 for D8 in sente, then come back to get one of the other large moves. Look again at this invasion around move 96, when W has become much stronger outside.
PS: Never thought for C12 move in this way. I'll try it against 3 space extensions in my games.
For I think I would just play E17, taking the corner profit and preventing from making a base. W should then do fine in any fighting. B probably has to connect underneath at K18 (which the game move did not prevent).

is a strong move, but only if W is willing to fight the ko. This would be a good time to pause and count the game, and also to count large ko threats for both sides. Tenuki is also a good option, saving you a full move if B gets nervous and defends before you start the ko.
PS: Never thought of ko there:( You are so right.

Thank you very much for your comments!

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:59 pm

I have lost the first bet with my friend (i played 29 ranked games, and failed with 2 games). February's bet is
*Finishing Ishida's Attack and Defense
*At least 3 slow games per week
*At least 10 min of problem solving from Graded Go Problems 3

I have won against an 8k for the first time! Although i won because of 0.5 komi, i feel happy. Got lots of questions though:) - I was Black.

Also played another game with a 9 kyu. I screwed up in upper left and bottom right josekis but he made many mistakes too so it wasn't even close. I was White this time.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:35 pm

Hi PlaySlow,

toshi's game:

:b17:

If you simply drop to F2, if W G5, you get the big wedge at C10 -- B is not dissatisfied.

:b29:

I agree with both your notes.

:b31:

I agree with your notes. ( Strange to think of 'guaranteed territory' for this situation. )

:b35:

This wedge... Did you consider and read the push-through at G6 ?

:b59:

With your D14 stones, plus W mostly on the 3rd line, how much can W build on top ?
Perhaps Q5.

:b65:

How about G16.

:b67:

Q5.

o7.

N7.

(A) direction bigger, yes.

:b91:

Very scared. At least N10.

:black:

103 Scared/blind spot. M13.

:black:

111 Misread ? Connect J11.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:43 pm

Hi PlaySlow,

spider game:

:b11:

(A) is very natural first feeling. "Hane head of 3."
Did you actually read out a sequence that's bad for W ? ( What was it ? ) Or did you just give up without reading, from fear ?
( See also toshi's game: :b83:

,

103 )

Not sure about this direction. You're playing from your thickness.
The other direction seems more natural.
If it's unclear how to profit with B's two stones, consider tenuki and take a big point. (E.g. K3, Q5, etc.)
( B's two stones remain a burden -- this is the value of your wall. )

:w26:

Did you consider C11 in sente for yourself ?
In the game, you let B take C11 in sente for himself.

:w30:

Slow ? How about D9. (Loally, E12 better ? )

:w32:

Block at B6 is big.

:b35:

,

B's basics not good.

:w56:

I'd consider R8.

Q14.

o15.

I don't understand what you're doing.
What's the meaning of this move ?
Your last few moves are building a big center.
So why not something like P10 turn, or D9 vital point ?
Why are you playing in neutral areas ?

:b67:

Ah, your note here explains your thinking.
Why do you care about your lower right group getting into the center ??
It has nothing to do with the center ! That's why you played :w64:

,

.
(D) is strange; the local move is G17 of course, but globally this is almost a pass.
(E) is wrong direction, again, from your confusion of the LR group.

:w68:

Confused, wrong direction; neutral area.

:w76:

What was your reading if B cuts at K17 ?

:white:

102 o10.

110 N10. Same bad habit.
( Some kind of fear or something with the hane -- this happened multiple times in these two games. )

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:35 am

My review of the Spider game.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:42 pm

@EdLee, thank you for detailed review!
Toshi
:b35:

I considered G6 but, thought as i was being the one attacked. I do this all the time and play with fear even i do not find a bad sequence for me. You have noticed it all over my gameplay in 2 games.
:b59:

I thought like 2 birds in one stone, i push W to 3rd line as well as strenghtening my left group. But now i thought the right bottom would be better for me since my top left group is not in bad shape.
:b65:

I was afraid that my 2 groups can be seperated there. But now i see that W cannot do that without sacrificing.
:b83:

Bad habit of being scared of nothing i guess. Also i thought i was far ahead at that moment so didnt want to give him more cuts, even they wont work for him.
:b103: I will work on hanes, double hanes without being scared and trust my judgement/reading.. You made it pretty clear!
:b111: Misread.
Spider
:b11:

Just didnt want to give cuts, because of i try to play way more solid than needed generally. Most probably the main cause is that 1 year ago i play too fast and reckless then lose groups to stupid cuts. Now i focused on playing more calmly, solidly but now it's too passive. I give too much advantage to opponents.
:b22:

I agree with you, i could have tenuki'ed there. Black stones will not get any stronger, and i can use my wall later on. I should not use my influence directly for territory there.
:w26:

I did not understand how could i miss it.
:w30:

This is because of my bad habit, "oh there is a cutting stone, lets take it asap!" or "fear without reason".
:w32:

Maybe this is the only thing i did not agree at first look. Why do you think it's big? Because if White plays there, Black will continue running away? And White can get advantage of it?
:w56:

I felt like R8 would be so little in terms of territory and need to make use of my influence at top, i.e. return that to territory.
:w64:

Afraid that my bottom right might die or not get into center.
:w76:

Thought i can drive him into middle, but obviously cannot.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:01 pm

PlaySlow wrote:Most probably the main cause is that 1 year ago i play too fast and reckless then lose groups to stupid cuts.
Now i focused on playing more calmly, solidly but now it's too passive. I give too much advantage to opponents.

Yes, this happens -- we over-compensate the other direction. We have to find the balance.

spider:

Locally, if you block at B6, this exchange is good for W.
Afterwards, if you close B (with W D9, etc.), B is not alive yet (as you killed him in the game).
If B pushes at B6 first, he helps settle his group,
and it affects your entire lower left corner.
Globally, I'm not sure.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:04 am

My review of the toshi game:

Opening: better for White, due to giving him the corner and the better influence to side and centre.
Middle game: better for Black, due to White making territory from thickness and leaving the rest of the board to you. Missed opportunities to take the bottom right corner with Q5. White settles there too easily.
Early endgame: better for White, reducing your territory from both sides.
Endgame: Black has the better endgame and makes it close.

Losing move B145. There was a better endgame sequence available.

Detailed review.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:10 am

Thanks for the comments Knotwilg as always:)
:b41:

Your variation, that was one of my weak points. I do not think about playing C in these kind of situations generally but sometimes i need to take the cash in gote i believe.
:b51:

Afraid of D14 cut more than needed i suppose, since there is only single D16 stone for white before the cut. And D11 group can look after themselves.
:b57:

Now i understand why u played at B18 in your variation. This kind of positions frequently in my games, thanks!
:b59:

Ed thought Q5 would be better, it is interesting how better players think differently about some fundamental positions:) There is also some moves you do not agree with each others comment in Spider's game. :w22:

for example. It's according to style i guess, and what makes go a more interesting game.
:b73:

Since i am playing chinese there is "let white play into your territory so you can attack him, u should play other areas of the board until he plays" echoing in my mind. But since the bigger points are taken already, i should have turned my attention to bottom right. Then he would probably invade/reduce at N4 or something so i get to attack anyway.
:b87:

I followed "do not let hane at the head of stones" proverb blindly. S8 would be sente anyway, so i'd get the change to play L5.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:22 am

Another 9k game. Pretty passive though i got many direction of play and fuseki questions.

Life In 19x19

PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re:

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow