Everybody's duty?

[sybob]

"It is everybody's duty to encourage others to learn go."

Let's face it: it is very difficult to get people to play go. Let alone learn it. At least, that is my impression. In the Western world (ahum, small country in Western Europe that is), go is not very well known. And insofar it is, it is mainly considered a nerdy type of game, an intellectual type of game, or a game for old people.

I think broader appreciation for the game is needed, especially in these times of video games and consoles. The image of go (if not lacking at all) does not help spreading awareness, knowledge, acceptance and appreciation for the game. Google's AlphaGo and related publicity help a lot, but it still contributes to the nerdy/intellectual image of the game.

I certainly would welcome a broad base of players, especially young ones. Without a broad base, there will be no top players.

Therefor I came up with the above quote. I would welcome your response and discussion. Let us know how you feel about it, what you think about it. And if you agree, what do you do?

[Kirby]

I agree with your sentiment, but I wouldn't say that it's everyone's duty to encourage others to play Go. "Duty" implies some sort of obligation, and I wouldn't say that anyone is obligated to encourage others to play Go.

However, if you are unsatisfied with the "Go situation" in your environment, I think it's a good idea to try to do something about it!

One example that comes to mind is at my company. There is a distribution list related to Go that I joined, but only a handful of people were on it - and there wasn't much activity.

I took initiative to start a "Go Problem Championship", and the list now has 5 times as many people with lots of activity.

So, my conclusion is, you don't have to feel obligated to encourage others to play Go, but if you are unsatisfied with the current situation, do something about it!

[sybob]

I totally agree.
I worded it a bit strong in the hope of getting responses.
And I do something about it already. Among friends, in the local community, at schools. I hope others take part and action also.

[wineandgolover]

One example that comes to mind is at my company. There is a distribution list related to Go that I joined...

Wow, that is impressive, Western companies with a go distribution list can't be too common!

[Kirby]

One example that comes to mind is at my company. There is a distribution list related to Go that I joined...

Wow, that is impressive, Western companies with a go distribution list can't be too common!

Yeah, it's pretty cool. When Inseong was in the area, I used the list to advertise, and we had a good turnout. I've found that people are quite willing to participate in a go problem competition, because it can be done electronically. Point system also helps, because people enjoy getting points. We had an awards ceremony last July where I gave out prizes.

Meetups to play Go in person on a regular basis are a bit more difficult - at least some people on the list actually have work to do during the day

In general, I think people are willing to participate in these types of things if they enjoy Go, but only if you make it easy for them to participate without much commitment.

Oh, and when you hold in-person activities, like the time Inseong visited, bringing free food always helps (though, I was eating pizza for weeks after the event).

[Fadedsun]

or a game for old people.

I told a Japanese friend of mine that I play Go and her response was "That's a game for old Asian men!" I've found with other female friends of mine from Asia, they have memories of their father or grandfather playing Go, or they remember having an old goban in their house, so I guess I can understand the association. I showed her a bit on how to play, but ultimately I think she finds the game very boring, especially to watch. Whenever I mention to her I'm watching go videos, she'll jokingly pretend to be asleep.

Some people will be more receptive to wanting to learn. I've managed to show a couple friends of mine some basics. They've found it interesting and wanted to learn more from me. However, I don't think they've gone out of their way to continue any learning on their own. This is the most difficult part; encouraging people to continue self-learning. Most people won't want to dedicate their time to learning a game like Go, unfortunately.

[gowan]

Part of the difficulty in interesting people in playing go is societal. There is less and less interest in activities that take a long time to concentrate. There seems to be less interest in reading serious literature. Who wants now to listen to a symphony that lasts over an hour? I have revisited the chess world recently after 50 years of not playing. I find that fast games, crazy fast games, are more and more the norm. Even at grandmaster championships there is a parallel blitz tournament. On internet chess sites the most common time setting seems to be 3 minute sudden death! There are even one minute sudden death games!!! Such time limits would be nonsensical for go. But even for internet go, fast games predominate. For me the beauty and pleasure of go is to think a long time about moves and investigate and form large scale plans and, especially, to interact with my partner in the game and enjoying how he/she responds to my plans. For a real beginner, some time to think is necessary just to make moves that follow the rules. Fast games are not even especially best for watching. When watching I like to think about how I would play, not just watching what the players do.

[Fadedsun]

Speaking of blitz games, I wasn't aware that was a thing with online Go until I met someone for a live game one day. After the game we exchanged KGS usernames and he told me he only played blitz games online. I didn't know what that was until I tried one against a bot on KGS. I was pretty shocked when I had to decide on a move within 3 seconds or else I lost! Definitely not the style of Go I'm interested in playing.

[EdLee]

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[Celebrir]

I disagree that it should be everyones duty. I know people that never ever should be allowed to try to encourage or even teach someone... Not because they're evil but because they just don't have the personality. But I agree that it is our duty as a community in general to help beginners. The person with the 'wrong' personality can still e.g. act as a first opponent to beat.

[gowan]

I believe we do have an obligation to help others learn go. It is mostly a matter of paying a debt of gratitude because we all got to where we are in go with help from others. How we do this varies. It might be teaching, beginners or even dan-level players, or offering handicap games, depending on our ability. It could be translating or writing books or articles. It could be writing articles or editing on Sensei's Library or Wikipedia. It could even be sharing our knowledge and experience here on L19. Most of us get paid back for these contributions through the pleasure we get from it. I don't believe we have to accept every offer to play high handicap games with weaker players but we should accept or offer these games sometimes to encourage weaker players. Much of that sort of thing happens naturally in an off-line go club setting where people know each other, but we can help out by visiting the beginners room on KGS every now and then.

[Kirby]

If I teach someone Go, I don't feel they owe me.

Conversely, I do not feel obligated to repay what people have taught me.

Rather, if I teach people, it is because I want to - and I think that's how it should be.

[Nyanjilla]

Not "duty"... but if you want a good range of opponents in the future, you'll need to generate them ....

[Nyanjilla]

...

[Galation]

Sorry to quote myself, here is my 2 cent about a larger audience for GO

I've spent some time too, pampering the idea of GO being more popular: known, casually played here and there, discussed about and... Fashionable.
It is one of my interests and hobbies, so what can be better than that?

IMHO, this optimum condition would lead to more people playing but also, inevitably, to many not really interested... because this is the effect of fashionable things.

A possibly worser scenario than that is GO taught in school (as Chess in the former CCCP): I have seen people hating Math, what will happen with GO:
Bad teachers, pupils that copy for remembering a Joseki at the examinations?

GO is not everyone cup of tea, but this is its nature, and also as a mere hobby, it is a (very) demanding one.

I don't expect this to change soon and also if I would like not to have to correct so often people saying: I know, I know, you are playing Othello! .....
I must say I prefer GO to be a niche interest and think that I will be at ease with people playing it because I know that we share something not so common and special.
Something that a small niche of people shares since 3 - 4.000 years ago

About GO appearance, looking as a nerdy brainy game... well, let's discuss, Cinema itself uses Go as a metaphor of worst than that
A Beautiful Mind the game is OK for University crazy math genious
π - faith in chaos the genious psicopath

This said, I pay my duty, or I return the favor by playing and commenting games with the newbies at my local club (and/or online), knowing that some of them (OK... most of them) will never return, but maybe
...I am showing the first rudiments to a future Master!
What I mean is that I don't try to widen the number of serious players by advertising GO ...OK, maybe just a little
Still, whenever I can, I spend my time showing GO to people interested and I really enjoy doing it.

Galation