Finding a professional to study

Subotai · Post by **Subotai** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:45 pm

I have studied a number of professionals but have yet to find one that really synergizes with my play style.

I am looking for a player who focuses on good solid territory in the beginning and then due to the safety of their groups is able to viciously attack.

Does this remind you of any professional?

Anzu · Post by **Anzu** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:52 pm

I think you might find http://senseis.xmp.net/?ProfessionalPlayersGoStyles an interesting page.

Faro · Post by **Faro** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:58 pm

Subotai wrote:I have studied a number of professionals but have yet to find one that really synergizes with my play style.

I am looking for a player who focuses on good solid territory in the beginning and then due to the safety of their groups is able to viciously attack.

Does this remind you of any professional?

Isn't that Cho Chikun's style? (I haven't looked at his games, but I heard once that that is how he plays)

I would also recommend watching Dwyrin's YT videos of Legend88, a pro who plays on Tygem.

RobertJasiek · Post by **RobertJasiek** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:05 pm

Study Lee Changho.

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:49 am

Kitani Minoru adopted that style in his later years. I just finished playing through the first game in his 10 game match with Go Seigen held at Kamakura, and it's an almost paradigmatic example of building up solid territory before a devastating attack.

findol · Post by **findol** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:02 am

Among modern pro players, you can also look at Choi Cheolhan's and Chen Yaoye's games.

This kind of style is quite popular theses days, so a lot of young players have such games too (well, when they don't go rampaging all over the board ^^).

jenson · Post by **jenson** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:09 am

how about a balanced playing style instead?

wineandgolover · Post by **wineandgolover** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:44 am

jenson wrote:how about a balanced playing style instead?

You play the moves you want to play. Let Subotai play the moves Subotai wants to play.

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:19 pm

Can someone elaborate a bit on this idea? My simple-minded idea is to associate playing for solid territory with shinogi or amashi--being able to make weak groups live without harming yourself (perhaps after letting your opponent get a moyo). You can end up attacking despite having played for solid territory earlier on, but how do you make this into a strategic idea?

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:02 pm

I have a similar thought, hyperpape.

When I go for lots of real territory early on, usually the opponent has more outside influence and therefore, I'd be the one playing lightly later.

If I want to be able to attack strongly later, I should start out by sacrificing some early territory in order to have strong groups. Then, I am free to attack later.

If I have more solid territory and also have more power to attack... I am not playing against an equally strong opponent.

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:01 pm

I think that, even more so than usual, this style of play involves superb timing. Take a look at move 55 in this game:

Kitani makes a deep invasion right before Go is able to solidify his area of influence, and he plays lightly enough that he is able to counter the profit Go gets from attacking.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:19 pm

The OP uses territory in an interesting way. In the traditional perspective (here) it's the player who foregoes territory in favor of thickness, who can later attack the opponent's positions. But when territory is taken in a solid way, giving the opponent wide spheres of influences as a result, he can invade without having to care about the safety of his groups.

Territory equals eyespace. Real territory, that is.

Myself I wanted (and still want) to develop a style where I built thick positions and then reducing what the opponent thought was his territory, winning in the endgame. The example pro here seemed to be Otake Hideo. From my personal page at SL you can find experiments with "playing like Otake".

Shenoute · Post by **Shenoute** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:37 am

Knotwilg wrote:Myself I wanted (and still want) to develop a style where I built thick positions and then reducing what the opponent thought was his territory, winning in the endgame. The example pro here seemed to be Otake Hideo. From my personal page at SL you can find experiments with "playing like Otake".

Interesting, I replayed some games by him but never really thought of him as playing for thickness. I must have another look.

Another player fitting this description is Takagawa,

Go World 41, p. 27-28 wrote:(...) But the strange thing is Takagawa not only does not seek to actively utilize thickness to attack his adversary, he seems to avoid a fight. (...) The ultimate result is that Takagawa's thickness envelops his opponent, neutralizing his strength and safely steering the game into the yose. (...) Takagawa's thickness spreads out and gradually takes control of the board; and finally, when the yose comes, that indirect pressure aggressively asserts its presence and assumes control.

I've replayed quite a few of his gams and generally got this nice feeling "ah, I (think I) understand what is going on here" :-)

joellercoaster · Post by **joellercoaster** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:27 am

Shenoute wrote:Another player fitting this description is Takagawa, I've replayed quite a few of his games and generally got this nice feeling "ah, I (think I) understand what is going on here"

I have just started looking at his games recently and get a similar feeling. I think they might be good for training myself in "reasonableness", if that's a thing.

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:08 am

Jeromie, I think I would call that example by Kitani an invasion, not an attack. Because the bottom left White group is not particularly thick, Kitani gets what looks like a reasonable trade. But I still wouldn't call it an attack--it fits more with the idea that if your own territory is very solid, you can invade without worrying so much about it being trashed as a result.

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