8th Ing Cup

[Elom]

Racist Tygem not broadcasting the games with Japanese (except Cho U-Ke Jie)

On Wbaduk, the potentially historic match between Iyama 9p and Ida 9p is broadcast, while simultaneously, the Ing cup (maybe historic in that the tournament system's changed, or 4 western players in a major Asian tournament, etc.) is broadcasting matchup's in which nearly each and every one would be one I'd give high viewing priority to in any other tournament. Rather dramatic, unbelievable moment but I haven't time to focus on the games

[Uberdude]

All the games are on wbaduk. Mi Yuting already beat Fan Hui, Fan made a centre that was too small. Having seen the games maybe I would revise my prediction to slightly favour Weon Seongjin, but the other games going as expected. Eric Lui seems to be putting up a decent fight.

[trout]

1st round,

Mi Yuting defeated Fan Hui by resign.
Lee Sedol defeated Andy Liu by resign.
Lin Lixiang defeated Na Hyun by resign.
Wang Yuanjun defeated Mateusz Surma by resign.
Kim Jiseok defeated Lian Xiao by resign.
Tang Weixing defeated Yuki Satoshi by 5.
Huang Yunsong defeated So Yokoku by resign.
Kono Rin defeated Chen Yaoye by 5.
Ke Jie defeated Cho U by resign.
Hane Naoki defeated Eric Lui by resign.
Park Yeonghun defeated Gu Li by resign.
Shi Yue defeated Yamashita Keigo by resign.
Kang Dongyun defeated Qiu Jun by resign.
Won Seongjin defeated Tuo Jiaxi by resign.

Pairing for round of 16;

Mi Yuting vs Kim Jiseok
Lin Lixiang vs Lee Sedol
Wang Yuanjun vs Ke Jie
Tang Weixing vs Hane Naoki
Huang Yunsong vs Park Junghwan
Kono Rin vs Park Yeonghun
Shi Yue vs Fan Tingyu
Kang Dongyun vs Won Seongjin

4/22 - round of 16(14 winners from round of 28 and winner and runner-up from last.)
4/24 - round of 8

[Solomon]

Huge victory for Korea, just saw Won Seongjin win over Tuo Jiaxi. 12/14 in my predictions, Chen Yaoye losing to Kono Rin which is kind of an upset, and Lin Lixiang winning over Na Hyun which I think was not too surprising.

[Uberdude]

Only upsets so far are Kono Rin beating Chen Yaoye. goratings.org put that at 33% probability. Glad to see one Japanese player survive. Seemed to me Chen didn't have enough big ko threats and once white's group lived it was hard. Kono also used his aji on the left side nicely. And then Lin Lixiang (who I've never heard of) beat Na Hyun which was at 17%.

Huge victory for Korea, just saw Won Seongjin win over Tuo Jiaxi.

Indeed, the reason I went slightly for Lian Xiao was not that he was 4 points higher rated by goratings, but that he was 3-0 in previous games against Kim. Weon was 2-1 against Tuo but 70 points lower on goratings so a good win for him. Park beating Gu I suppose should be expected as he is in good form lately (63 points higher) but Gu Li has more history of winning big tournaments and I was hoping he could revive his form for the Ing.

[macelee]

Ke Jie vs Cho U game is quite interesting. When they fight at the right side, Cho U first played a nice first-line connecting tesuji to save his stones. But Ke Jie returned with a first-line tesuji, eventually creating a ko fight there.

[by78]

Disappointed to see no Iyama Yuta again! Deja vu ... http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 822#p99822

His 3rd Judan title match game is on the 14th April and 4th if he needs it is 20th so that is a scheduling conflict, though I'd expect him to win the 3rd game (and thus get the simultaneous big 7) so the 4th game wouldn't be needed.

Iyama probably wouldn't make it out of the preliminaries. No point in trying.

[Uberdude]

Iyama probably wouldn't make it out of the preliminaries. No point in trying.

First of all, I don't think the Ing Cup has a preliminary with players from multiple countries, they assign some number of seats to various countries (used to be 1 each for Europe/North America, this time it was 2 which I approve of even though we are obviously no-hopers) and those countries (maybe with input from Ing) then choose players as they see fit, usually through a combination of nomination of top players and a preliminary tournament (see http://igokisen.web.fc2.com/wr/ig.html, e.g. from Korea Park Junghwan, Lee Sedol, Park Yeonghun, Kim Jiseok, Na Hyun were seeded and Kang Dongyun and Won Sungjin qualified from 8 players through the preliminary). So Iyama would obviously by nominated as the unquestionably top Japanese player, and could win through a qualifier against Japanese if he needed.
But even if they did have a combined nations preliminary, he would almost certainly qualify unless he faced a world top 10 or 20 player in which case a loss wouldn't be a huge upset, but neither is a win (but facing such players is unlikely as they are seeded, as he would be). Whilst I agree the #5 spot on goratings.org is likely too generous and inaccurate with the paucity of international games, he's probably in the world top 20. He recently beat rising Chinese player Huang Yunsong 4p (#17 on goratings, he just won his 1st round Ing Cup game) in the China-Japan Agon Cup. And a few years ago he beat both Lee Sedol and Gu Li in that 3-way exhibition match (though Lee Sedol beat him recently in the Nongshim cup).

[by78]

Iyama probably wouldn't make it out of the preliminaries. No point in trying.

First of all, I don't think the Ing Cup has a preliminary with players from multiple countries, they assign some number of seats to various countries (used to be 1 each for Europe/North America, this time it was 2 which I approve of even though we are obviously no-hopers) and those countries (maybe with input from Ing) then choose players as they see fit, usually through a combination of nomination of top players and a preliminary tournament (see http://igokisen.web.fc2.com/wr/ig.html, e.g. from Korea Park Junghwan, Lee Sedol, Park Yeonghun, Kim Jiseok, Na Hyun were seeded and Kang Dongyun and Won Sungjin qualified from 8 players through the preliminary). So Iyama would obviously by nominated as the unquestionably top Japanese player, and could win through a qualifier against Japanese if he needed.
But even if they did have a combined nations preliminary, he would almost certainly qualify unless he faced a world top 10 or 20 player in which case a loss wouldn't be a huge upset, but neither is a win (but facing such players is unlikely as they are seeded, as he would be). Whilst I agree the #5 spot on goratings.org is likely too generous and inaccurate with the paucity of international games, he's probably in the world top 20. He recently beat rising Chinese player Huang Yunsong 4p (#17 on goratings, he just won his 1st round Ing Cup game) in the China-Japan Agon Cup. And a few years ago he beat both Lee Sedol and Gu Li in that 3-way exhibition match (though Lee Sedol beat him recently in the Nongshim cup).

I merely stated an opinion that Iyama wouldn't make it far in the ING cup should he choose to grace us with his presence. I fail to see how this opinion of mine is controversial. Iyama is certainly strong... by Japanese standards. He's the top koi in the small koi pond. But there is a big ocean out there with sharks.

It's good that Iyama has beaten some top players in lightening games, but ING time control is rather different, isn't it? Besides, there is no point for Iyama to try when he's comfortably making lots of money at home. And I think he should stay there.

[Uberdude]

Iyama probably wouldn't make it out of the preliminaries. No point in trying.

I merely stated an opinion that Iyama wouldn't make it far in the ING cup should he choose to grace us with his presence.

Maybe by preliminaries you actually meant the early rounds of the main tournament, which are currently underway?

[hyperpape]

I merely stated an opinion that Iyama wouldn't make it far in the ING cup should he choose to grace us with his presence. I fail to see how this opinion of mine is controversial. Iyama is certainly strong... by Japanese standards. He's the top koi in the small koi pond. But there is a big ocean out there with sharks.

• 2-1 against Park Junghwan
  1-1 against Park Yeonghun
  0-1 against Ke Jie
  2-4 against Lee Sedol
  1-0 against Mi Yuting
  1-1 against Zhou Ruiyang
  0-1 against Lian Xiao

Fun fact: he's 7-9 against the top ten in the world. You can argue there are better comparisons (it looks worse if you expand the group to the top 20: http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 20#p195477), but your opinion is unreasonable.

[by78]

Iyama probably wouldn't make it out of the preliminaries. No point in trying.

I merely stated an opinion that Iyama wouldn't make it far in the ING cup should he choose to grace us with his presence.

Maybe by preliminaries you actually meant the early rounds of the main tournament, which are currently underway?

Yes, that's precisely what I meant. Iyama wouldn't make it out of the early rounds of the ING tournament. I think there are a dozen Chinese and Korean players stronger than Iyama who are participating, so Iyama's chances are rather slim.

It's best that Iyama stayed home and defended his seven titles while winning substantial purses.

[by78]

I merely stated an opinion that Iyama wouldn't make it far in the ING cup should he choose to grace us with his presence. I fail to see how this opinion of mine is controversial. Iyama is certainly strong... by Japanese standards. He's the top koi in the small koi pond. But there is a big ocean out there with sharks.

• 2-1 against Park Junghwan
  1-1 against Park Yeonghun
  0-1 against Ke Jie
  2-4 against Lee Sedol
  1-0 against Mi Yuting
  1-1 against Zhou Ruiyang
  0-1 against Lian Xiao

Fun fact: he's 7-9 against the top ten in the world. You can argue there are better comparisons (it looks worse if you expand the group to the top 20: http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 20#p195477), but your opinion is unreasonable.

So, according to the data you compiled (as seen in the link you kindly provided), Iyama's record against top 20 players stands at 11 wins and 21 losses, a win rate of 34%. I don't see that as proving my opinion as unreasonable. In fact, I would argue the opposite: my opinion actually overestimates Iyama's chances.

By the way, just to be clear, my opinion is that Iyama wouldn't make it out of the early rounds should he choose to participate in the ING Cup.

[Uberdude]

Yes, that's precisely what I meant. Iyama wouldn't make it out of the early rounds of the ING tournament. I think there are a dozen Chinese and Korean players stronger than Iyama who are participating, so Iyama's chances are rather slim.
It's best that Iyama stayed home and defended his seven titles while winning substantial purses.

Ah well, in that case my opinion on Iyama's chances is probably only slightly more optimistic than yours. I think exiting in the first or second round would be disappointing, but losing in the 3rd (i.e. position 5-8) about par.

[by78]

Ah well, in that case my opinion on Iyama's chances is probably only slightly more optimistic than yours. I think exiting in the first or second round would be disappointing, but losing in the 3rd (i.e. position 5-8) about par.

To be fair, I believe Iyama's strength has improved in the past few years. So he might last longer.

But Korean and Chinese pros are much more experienced at playing in these international tournaments. So all in all, it's a wash.

I'm curious as to how much stronger Iyama can become. I think he's got some distance to go before reaching his ceiling, but to do that, he needs tougher competition, and that can't be found in Japan.