
Iyama Yuta did it!
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Uberdude
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
The defence of Iyama's septuple crown didn't get off to a good start, losing to Takao Shinji in the first Honinbo title match game:
The 2nd game is currently paused between days. Iyama lost a load of stones in exchange for centre thickness that didn't seem enough compensation to me but these things are so hard to judge. He does have a lot of ko threats with them and is currently fighting a ko which he amplified, but black has quite a few threats too. The game is at move 77, the following moves are my exploring of the ko threats (I think white will solid connect in the top left, because e17 would give black more threats. And then I'm not sure if white will connect n8, because where is his next threat, m4? Black can ignore that and fight, though m8 losing a liberty from the threat is quite a handicap.
http://eidogo.com/#3O0NPvib
The 2nd game is currently paused between days. Iyama lost a load of stones in exchange for centre thickness that didn't seem enough compensation to me but these things are so hard to judge. He does have a lot of ko threats with them and is currently fighting a ko which he amplified, but black has quite a few threats too. The game is at move 77, the following moves are my exploring of the ko threats (I think white will solid connect in the top left, because e17 would give black more threats. And then I'm not sure if white will connect n8, because where is his next threat, m4? Black can ignore that and fight, though m8 losing a liberty from the threat is quite a handicap.
http://eidogo.com/#3O0NPvib
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hyperpape
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
To elaborate, does this mean "it was out of the question for Cho" or "it was out of the question, but social norms dictated that it be Cho who said that they would play, rather than Kobayashi or the sponsor"? Sorry for the pedantry, but I just don't know who would have been committed to playing on the existing schedule. For that matter, I don't know how it would play out in a Western context--I feel like there have been substantial disputes over scheduling in Chess championships.gowan wrote:An interesting example of refusal to alter the schedule is the 1986 Kisei match between Kobayashi Koichi and Cho Chikun. As I recall, Cho had been injured in an accident played one game from a wheelchair. It was out of the question to postpone games because one of the players suffered a serious injury, though it was Cho who insisted on playing while recovering.
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Shenoute
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
For what it's worth here is how the matter was presented in Go World 44, p. 6
(...) On the 8th, Cho underwent a two hour 50 minute operation, which would normally be followed by one month's hospitalization, so at this stage the sponsoring newspaper and the Nihon Ki-in were wondering if the title match would be taking place at all.
They reckoned without Cho's will-power and complete dedication to go. He insisted from the start that he would not forfeit even one game of the title match (the itinerary of a title match cannot be changed once it has been decided) and managed to talk his doctors into letting him play. He also overcame the opposition of his older brother, Cho Shoen 5-dan, who thought that playing would risk delaying his recovery. (...)
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
Takao compromised and gave up the ko, but I'm struggling to understand why as it looked difficult for Iyama to me. For move 80 Iyama played s7 not s5 which I suppose is slightly better if you are not going to play the other one given it takes a liberty of the outside stones. And then Takao played g17 rather than e17 as his threat: e17 results in a not so good shape if you don't win the ko, but means you have 2 big threats, whereas g17 is only 1 threat, and this ko is big enough (and white amplified it with b9 so losing it turns b9 into junk) I thought that was worth it. Or would white have captured at e16 immediately if black retook the ko, or perhaps have ignored e16 connect to resolve the ko? White also played o4 as a ko threat and black simply blocked at o3. This makes sense if black wants to keep fighting the ko, but given he had already indicated his intention to compromise and go for the outside with e11 I'm wondering why Takao didn't answer o4 at k3. This is a thin move (but I don't see anything working for white if he is allowed to break into the corner at o3, did I miss something?) which leaves many ko threats, but if he is conceding the ko that's not so relevant (though makes fighting future kos harder) and k3 is a very useful move on the outside. For example it removes all oomph from the white turn at k5, and can aim at the j6 nose attachment. This is not purely academic possibility, if you look in the game the j6 nose tesuji would have worked on move 149 if black had a stone at k3.
See game continuation (it's the variation at move 80) and variations in http://eidogo.com/#y9hrN5j5
Edit: And Iyama won in the end. Takao tenukid from his centre group to half kill (a ko remained) the top right, Iyama killed some stones in the centre by winning a ko (in which Takao lived in the bottom left), and then Takao had to live in gote with his centre left group, and Iyama created and lost the top right ko to re-kill the bottom left and win. So I can't help but wonder if Takao eased off the first ko too much as the burden of that group gave Iyama a target for the middle game fighting. If anyone finds some professional commentary on this game please let me know!
See game continuation (it's the variation at move 80) and variations in http://eidogo.com/#y9hrN5j5
Edit: And Iyama won in the end. Takao tenukid from his centre group to half kill (a ko remained) the top right, Iyama killed some stones in the centre by winning a ko (in which Takao lived in the bottom left), and then Takao had to live in gote with his centre left group, and Iyama created and lost the top right ko to re-kill the bottom left and win. So I can't help but wonder if Takao eased off the first ko too much as the burden of that group gave Iyama a target for the middle game fighting. If anyone finds some professional commentary on this game please let me know!
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hyperpape
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
Iyama won game 5, winning the title 4-1. This is the fifth straight year he won, so if they follow previous practices, he'll be recognized as the 26th Honinbo.
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
hyperpape wrote:Iyama won game 5, winning the title 4-1. This is the fifth straight year he won, so if they follow previous practices, he'll be recognized as the 26th Honinbo.
For five in a row, you get the honorary title when you turn 60 years old. If he can get it ten times in a row, he gets the honorary title immediately. More of a Fairbairn question, but Iyama is the only Japanese born Honinbo title holder that I know of that didn't take a second name while holding the Honinbo title. I wonder if anything will change now.
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
I'm surprised none commented on the fact that Iyama defended his Gosei title. Not only that, it was the fifth time in a row which means he will become honorary Gosei?
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
1/7,000,000,000 wrote:I'm surprised none commented on the fact that Iyama defended his Gosei title. Not only that, it was the fifth time in a row which means he will become honorary Gosei?
Yep, he'll get that as well in the future. Now it's the road to 10 straight to get the titles immediately.
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hyperpape
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
Takao won the first game in the Meijin, and Ichiriki won against Yamashita to challenge for the Tengen title.
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
The opening of Iyama's game against Takao was rather odd to me: it looks like white (Iyama) gave black a load of lower side territory (though perhaps not much more than expected from a Kobayashi opening) and then gave up the lower left corner (albeit with a little long ko aji) for a fairly useless big old wall. As to be expected Iyama did then find ways of turning this thickness into some profit later, but it wasn't enough and he lost.
In fact this way of dealing with the Kobayashi opening was used more successfully by Tan Xiao vs Meng Tailing in the Samsung cup prelims just a month before, I wonder did Iyama/Takao study this? By comparison Meng's tenuki to invade the right for move 21 looks poor compared to Takao's immediate invasion there (move 13) as Tan got to settle his group in the lower right corner whilst Iyama didn't and that caused it to run and struggle.
In fact this way of dealing with the Kobayashi opening was used more successfully by Tan Xiao vs Meng Tailing in the Samsung cup prelims just a month before, I wonder did Iyama/Takao study this? By comparison Meng's tenuki to invade the right for move 21 looks poor compared to Takao's immediate invasion there (move 13) as Tan got to settle his group in the lower right corner whilst Iyama didn't and that caused it to run and struggle.
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
Seeing that game again, I felt like transcribing the self commentary by Meng Tailing
He talks a lot about process, Korea vs China, go styles, not just the go. He doesn't give so many variations except in the opening, but mostly his opinion of the position at critical points
He talks a lot about process, Korea vs China, go styles, not just the go. He doesn't give so many variations except in the opening, but mostly his opinion of the position at critical points
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- __go4go_20160720_Meng-Tailing_Tan-Xiao.sgf
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
oren wrote:hyperpape wrote:Iyama won game 5, winning the title 4-1. This is the fifth straight year he won, so if they follow previous practices, he'll be recognized as the 26th Honinbo.
For five in a row, you get the honorary title when you turn 60 years old. If he can get it ten times in a row, he gets the honorary title immediately. More of a Fairbairn question, but Iyama is the only Japanese born Honinbo title holder that I know of that didn't take a second name while holding the Honinbo title. I wonder if anything will change now.
Iyama finally picked his name: 文裕 "Monyuu". The first character "文" mon comes from his grandfather's name (鐵文), who first taught him Go.
Dave Sigaty
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- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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skydyr
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Re: Iyama Yuta did it!
ez4u wrote:oren wrote:hyperpape wrote:Iyama won game 5, winning the title 4-1. This is the fifth straight year he won, so if they follow previous practices, he'll be recognized as the 26th Honinbo.
For five in a row, you get the honorary title when you turn 60 years old. If he can get it ten times in a row, he gets the honorary title immediately. More of a Fairbairn question, but Iyama is the only Japanese born Honinbo title holder that I know of that didn't take a second name while holding the Honinbo title. I wonder if anything will change now.
Iyama finally picked his name: 文裕 "Monyuu". The first character "文" mon comes from his grandfather's name (鐵文), who first taught him Go.
To me, this seems quite reminiscent of the names of the early heads of Hayashi, but do you know if this is something that would occur to people in Japan, or is it just an artifact of transliteration?