First serious game

Tapani · Post by **Tapani** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:06 am

Hello,

the very nice people in the beginners forum encouraged me to post a game once I finish 100 games. Since I'd guess that I have finished ~160 (fast) games, it was time to play one a little more seriously.

My opponent was my tablet (as always, yet to play someone of flesh and blood) and the GoDroid app.

I spent 10h in one sitting on this game. So if my last 30 moves or start to look even weirder than the initial ones, it is likely because I started to get a little tired and lose focus

After every opponent (white) move I wrote down my thoughts for my move, do not read all my comments!. May of them are just meaningless rambling about my thoughts.
The triangles mark the moves I considered before making my move (I was playing without handicap, analysis board or undos - not a serious game otherwise).

What is the standard notation for moves? I tried to use "bO14" for black O fourteen, and "wN5" for white to N five.

Also, sorry if I dont use the correct terminology. It is because I am not really familiar with all the japanese words.

Oh, I am black - and managed to win 136 vs 106.5!

Any comments are welcome

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:13 am

Hi Tapani,

R17 is natural. Basic shape.
Your var is fine.
If W pulls back to P17, you drop to R18.
In your notes, you ask about o14 -- No;
R17 is MUCH bigger than o14.

Tenuki is an option; approach an open corner.
None of your triangles considered tenuki.
In your notes, you mention o14, again.
"Influence" is kind of a trap.
Missing R17, giving it to W, is a huge loss:
somewhere between 10 to 20 points swing.
It's MUCH bigger than it appears.

S7, vital point to kill W's eye shape.
You have miai of S6 and S9 to connect.

You missed the vital point, let W take it first.

Correct.

S4.

D7 hane. Basic shape. Re:

.
( Proverb: "When attached, hane" -- the difficult part, with all proverbs,
is learn when it applies, and when it fails. )
See also this .

You got yourself a bad result here,
because you missed the D7 hane.

Almost a pass; very small. C14 is big.

P4.

General, recurring mistakes up to here:
- Underestimate the corner;
- Corollary: overestimate 'center' moves ( "influence" trap );
- Basic shapes.

Tapani · Post by **Tapani** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:13 am

Thank you very very much Ed.

Your response also had me to check up a few more go terms in Japanese, which is the first good thing

Judging from your comments, I am also recurringly afraid of cuts. Should hane more often. (Most of my losses are from allowing computer to create threats, for instance using cuts -- instead I have had better success with extending rather than allowing a cut)

But still I wonder about the D7 hane instead of

? While it certainly works, the Joseki after white cuts looks quite ... chaotic?

Can I ask a question about one other move you suggested?
You say

is better placed at S4. I considered that move for quite a long time, but somehow I was no longer sure if white was alive or not after white would play at Q7 in response:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Kinda reasoned that if white dies, it does not matter where those stones really end up. At what point was white's group dead?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:06 am

Tapani wrote:I wonder about the D7 hane instead of ?

The basic shapes and sequences:
After

hane, two local vital points are (a) and (b) --
one can consider them miai --

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . a . . . . $$ | . . . O . O 1 . . , $$ | . . . . b X . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ +--------------------[/go]

If

goes up, you push toward the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Var 1 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . $$ | . . . O . O 1 . . , $$ | . . . . 3 X . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ +--------------------[/go]

If W wants cash, you atari with

, W connects;
then you decide which cut you fix, (c) or (d):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Var 2 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . 3 c . . . $$ | . . . O 4 O 1 . . , $$ | . . . . 2 X d . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ +--------------------[/go]

Common beginner mistake: let W take BOTH vital points (a) and (b) --
compare vars 1 & 2 to W's very nice shape here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . $$ | . . . O . O 1 . . , $$ | . . . . 2 X 3 . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ +--------------------[/go]

This

is the same stone as your

.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:15 am

Hi Tapani,

Your local shape is thin --

was questionable --
see shape of

stones and fuzzy areas --
it's not easy to contain W, or to stop W from making eyes:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . X . . | $$ , . . . . . , X . . | $$ . . . . . B . O X . | $$ . . . . 2 . . O X . | $$ . . . . ? . . . O . | $$ . . . B . O . O . . | $$ . . . . ? . . . O . | $$ , . . . ? . , X 1 . | $$ . . . . . B . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------+[/go]

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:54 pm

You played well. Great start!

For the most part I have offered only minor suggestions, which I think you can incorporate easily into your play.

Time to start playing humans, to provide a variety of challenges.

Some comments.

Charles Matthews · Post by **Charles Matthews** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:17 pm

Bill Spight wrote:You played well.

I agree with Bill. You have a pretty good idea of what you are trying to do, and are quite successful in doing it.

The way ahead is trying to do more "ambitious" things. Those include greater efficiency, and not settling for 50-50 results where both sides get solid. Less comfort zone, more tightrope walking.

Tapani · Post by **Tapani** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:26 am

@ed:

thank you for the effort of writing an explaination of the attach joseki for me. Afraid some of it is a little over my head - had no idea what vital points were even.

As I tried to say, my instinct against the hane was a worry about the [sl=AttachCrosscutCornerPatterns#2]cut[/sl] instead. (No I did not do any reading, it just appeared as ... trouble)

Anyway, will set eye through the variations on a board this weekend. Seems like useful josekis to know.

About playing

, the reason why I did not play it at S4 so was to avoid situations as in your diagram.

Instead, I thought that after

below, white would get at least some stones captured.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . X . . | $$ , . . . . . , X . . | $$ . . . . . X . O X . | $$ . . . . . . . O X . | $$ . . . . . . 1 . O . | $$ . . . X . O . O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . O . | $$ , . . . . . , X 2 . | $$ . . . . . X . . 3 . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------+[/go]

Was I wrong and white lives? (And instead just gave some territory away in the corners for nothing?)

And yes, I am aware that the outer containment is very thin.

Tapani · Post by **Tapani** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:13 am

@Bill,

thank you for your analysis and suggestions. You managed to answer a question I had but did not ask: when should black have delt with whites top left territory. In your analysis you suggest several occasions when black might attempt to get a foothold there. Thank you. Maybe I did not realize how dangerous that territory was going to be.

I have a question of one of your suggestions:

At move

you suggest playing

, but my worry was white playing

with something like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 X O . . . . . . X . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . 2 4 O . O . . O X . . $$ | . . X . . . . O . O X . $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . O X . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ +------------------------[/go]

Maybe the territory and reduction of white on the bottom is worth it, but somehow I feel safer when my areas are connected. The computer can be really good in finding tactical tricks to capture my stones.

Your suggested alternative at

is of course better. I've had that situation (wall vs wall) so often and never thought of it!

@Charles: thank you for your encouragement as well.

In general I think you all three have a similar opinion where I can improve: play sharper instead of trying to find the safe way out.

Thank you.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:28 am

Tapani wrote:I have a question of one of your suggestions:

At move you suggest playing , but my worry was white playing
with something like:
$$Bc
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 X O . . . . . . X .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 4 O . O . . O X . .
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X .
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . O X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 X O . . . . . . X . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . 2 4 O . O . . O X . . $$ | . . X . . . . O . O X . $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . O X . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ +------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . 2 3 O . O . . O X . . $$ | . . X . . . . O . O X . $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . O X . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ +------------------------[/go]

Tapani · Post by **Tapani** » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:04 am

@Bill

:facepalm:

Of course. Somehow I did not see

is a threat. Need to practice on my reading skills.

Also I learnt something bigger than go from your comments. Sometimes I give beginners feedback on their chess games on chess forums. What you taught me is to try to pinpoint the moves where the beginner has played on top of their ability, and give positive feedback there.

Thank you.

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