Difficult decision...

[EdLee]

Yunzi stones should be forbidden.

We're on the same page here.

As for "appropriateness," I use my 10 mm ING, KGT snow, and standard sets all on ( relatively cheap ) Japanese shinkaya table boards. ( In my avatar; although those stones were still during my glass phase... ~10 years ago )

Snow 31/Kaya, or Blossom 32/Shin Kaya, or even the other way around: Snow 31/Shin Kaya or Blossom 32/Kaya.

Given these choices, no brainer for me: the last combo -- thickest stones + best wood.

[Babelardus]

Given these choices, no brainer for me: the last combo -- thickest stones + best wood.

Even though the board is more expensive than the stones?

The problem is, Mr. Kuroki doesn't have many Kaya boards; most are sold out. The cheaper ones, around 20K yen (approaching the New Kaya board at 16K yen) have very obvious flaws. I don't mind some color shifts, or an intergrown know on the side or bottom; I don't even particularly mind if it's masame, itame, or whatever. What I do mind is that the board doesn't have flaws like scratches, dents and that sort of thing.

The first one I like costs a bit more than the stones, or a lot more if I should get a discount on the Blossom stones in a set.

I do like the look of the Katsura board he has, but I have a feeling that this is going to be too dark for me. With my bad eyesight, I can 'see myself not seeing' the black stones clearly enough.

(I wonder why he doesn't just remove sold out products from the website. It's no fun scrolling through lists and lists of products one can't buy.)

[Babelardus]

In the last couple of days, I'm looking around in Europe to see what is available here.

When I'm including the 21% VAT I'd have to pay by importing stuff, the prices would be such at Kurokigoishiten, when discounted in a set:

- Stones: €400 (Moon Grade size 32)
- Board: €129 (Shin Kaya)
- Bowls: €150 (Satin Wood)
- Shipment: €180
- Import tax: around €30

Total: €889.

If I'm going to look around in Europe, I get this:

- Stones: €325-450 (From Jitsuyo size 36 to Yuki size 31)
- Board: €99-275 (2.5cm Shin Kaya to 5.5 cm Shin Kaya or 6cm Alaskan Spruce)
- Bowls: €100-250 (varying woods, but hard to get anything better than chestnut under €200)
- Shipment: around 60 or so, from different countries.

The total price would be between €584 and €1035. Prices are higher for materials of the same quality level, even when including tax in the Kurkokigoishiten prices.

Because I can probably get better materials for the money at Kurokigoishiten, even including the huge shipment and tax hits, I'm inclined to order there, but I have not yet received an answer to my e-mail requesting a price quote on a set I put together.

Does anybody know how long this would normally take? I have sent this e-mail Sunday morning, and it's now Thursday; the working day in Japan is already over again. That's four days without an answer. In today's world, four days is a long time, to be honest. I've sent the mail to info@kurokigoishi.co.jp, which is on their website.

[sybob]

Patience is a virtue, on board or off board
Else, kindly remind him in due course.

By the way, you seem to pose high standards, but also to apply a strict budget. Those don't always go together very well. Wish you luck in your search.

[Babelardus]

Patience is a virtue, on board or off board
Else, kindly remind him in due course.

By the way, you seem to pose high standards, but also to apply a strict budget. Those don't always go together very well. Wish you luck in your search.

I'm quite patient, but a communication speed of one e-mail per week is somewhat slow in the current day and age. And yes, I'm posing high standards, and a strict budget, which just means that I try to get the very best for my money.

Why should I spend something like €200 for a board here in Europe, when the price at Kurokigoishi is €125-€160, even including import duties and tax? Same for the bowls. Chestnut bowls over here cost like €125-150, at Kurokigoishi they cost €67, including imports, tax, and no discount. Satin wood bowls are €275 here, vs. €150 there.

The only thing I can possibly get cheaper in Europe, are Yuki or Tsuki stones, if I order at a store that still has the old prices. I found one store that sells size 32 Yuki stones, for under €450... but they are very small, and I can find almost no information on it, so I'm hesitant to order there.

[tj86430]

If you get nice slate&shell stones, you should also get a nice kaya board. The stones and the board should be of same "quality" (for lack of better word). Nice stones are kind of wasted on an inferior quality board.

[Babelardus]

If you get nice slate&shell stones, you should also get a nice kaya board. The stones and the board should be of same "quality" (for lack of better word). Nice stones are kind of wasted on an inferior quality board.

Kurokigoishiten doesn't have many Kaya boards in stock at the moment. There are two I like, with no damage or irregularity, and the cheapest one costs €530, if I include tax and imports. I'm not willing to pay that much money for a board. I think a Shin Kaya board does well enough with a set of Blossom grade stones. If I should end up getting Yuki stones from somewhere... then I might actually decide to get a Kaya board too. I do have a hard time justifying a €1000+ Go set (excluding shipping, which is another €200 when including tax), though.

Granted, now I have a set that costs like €100, of which €60 was for the glass stones. It's serviceable, but I'd like something better. It doesn't have to be over the top though.

I'm going to send another e-mail using their webform instead of their info-address. If I don't have an answer within 5 working days, I'm going to decide on a purchase somewhere in Europe.

edit: I've sent a new e-mail (without mentioning the previous one) using their web form instead of the info-address. Now I've got at least an auto-reply. It's like 9:50 AM in Japan now, so maybe, just maybe, I'll receive a reply today. (If I do, then they have an info-address there that nobody ever checks )

[Bonobo]

[..] If I don't have an answer within 5 working days, I'm going to decide on a purchase somewhere in Europe.

I think Mr. Kuroki & Co. are more artisans than netizens, and that English is even more a foreign language for them than for those European who don't have English as their native language.

I believe it was somewhere here that I read that it can take two or three weeks for them to reply to a mail enquiry, and that Mr. Kuroki (senior?) had to have mails translated to him.

Also, I have never read about an unhappy customer, and I wouldn't make two or four or eight weeks time difference decide over whether I buy high quality gear which I intend to use for the rest of my life.

[Babelardus]

[..] If I don't have an answer within 5 working days, I'm going to decide on a purchase somewhere in Europe.

I think Mr. Kuroki & Co. are more artisans than netizens, and that English is even more a foreign language for them than for those European who don't have English as their native language.

I can understand that a reply will take a few days, but...

I believe it was somewhere here that I read that it can take two or three weeks for them to reply to a mail enquiry, and that Mr. Kuroki (senior?) had to have mails translated to him.

... three weeks? That's just impossible in the current day and age. Customers will go elsewhere if the communication speed is that slow. I just hope I have sent my first e-mail to the wrong address. I can't believe that all e-mails and/or phone calls end up at Mr. Kuroki himself. He wouldn't have time to actually run his company.

Also, I have never read about an unhappy customer, and I wouldn't make two or four or eight weeks time difference decide over whether I buy high quality gear which I intend to use for the rest of my life.

The main reason to see if I can buy from Kurokigoishiten is that equipment is just very expensive in Europe. One of the sites I'm looking at is this one in Germany. At Kurokigoishiten, one can get better stuff for about the same price, after including shipping and taxes.

[Nestor]

I've never bought in Kuroki's but I think you're just approaching this from the wrong direction (in my humble opinion). Kuroki is a craftsman, an artisan, not a bussines-man who runs a company to make profit; at least that's the image I have from him after reading several threads in this forum. In top of that, he's old and live in Japan; we're just lucky that he sells worldwide! If you want a more modern, internet, western culture approach, you should go with GGG or something along those lines (but be aware that currently they're swamped with orders and emails). I hope you don't get this with the wrong foot, I honestly just want to point this out without getting in an argument.

PS: I envy you so much, someday I'll have the money to buy a nice set

[Bonobo]

... three weeks? That's just impossible in the current day and age.

That may be true for Abebooks, Amazon, eBay and any large online merchant …

Customers will go elsewhere if the communication speed is that slow.

Well, I rather believe customers walk in and out of Mr. Kuroki’s store all day. His Web store seems to be an extra for customers who cannot visit the store IRL.

[Babelardus]

I've never bought in Kuroki's but I think you're just approaching this from the wrong direction (in my humble opinion). Kuroki is a craftsman, an artisan, not a bussines-man who runs a company to make profit; at least that's the image I have from him after reading several threads in this forum. In top of that, he's old and live in Japan; we're just lucky that he sells worldwide!

That is indeed the image he projects on his website; 3-4 people in their seventies ('started his career when he was 20, and he has now more than 50 years of experience') who manufacture all the equipment and do all the rest themselves as well. That is just something I can't believe if you try to sell worldwide

If you want a more modern, internet, western culture approach, you should go with GGG or something along those lines (but be aware that currently they're swamped with orders and emails). I hope you don't get this with the wrong foot, I honestly just want to point this out without getting in an argument.

You'll get no argument from me. You may even be right, and Kurokigoishiten -is- a very small manufacturer and very slow in communicating. It could be. I'll see what happens (or doesn't) next week.

PS: I envy you so much, someday I'll have the money to buy a nice set

I don't know what your age and situation is, but I thought like that often enough when I was a student and early in my working life. Now, at my age and working full-time for more than a decade, this has obviously changed.

I must say though, that I live very cheaply. I only have the minimum number of subscriptions I can get away with, no car, don't drink, don't smoke, it takes me 8 years to upgrade a computer, and a smartphone will only be replaced if it can't run the 'Make Call' app any longer... in short, I don't spend money unnecessarily, so I can spend a large sum if I really want something.

I'm sure that at some point, you'll be able to save up for your set.

[LifeIn9x9]

Hyuga shells are already extinct, the Mexican Giant Clam is protected, and Mr. Kuroki himself states on this page.

Does anyone know if stones from Giant Clam that have already been fashioned are specially protected, the way tortoiseshell and ivory are? Should I be worried about bringing a set from Japan into the US?

... pretty cool stones, they are.

[sybob]

Does anyone know if stones from Giant Clam that have already been fashioned are specially protected, the way tortoiseshell and ivory are? Should I be worried about bringing a set from Japan into the US?

... pretty cool stones, they are.

I don't think it is protected in any kind. Customs and authorities will not make a problem. Stones are regularly sold and shipped, also internationally.
But.
You may want to consider if you want to buy goods made from vulnerable sources.

[LifeIn9x9]

Well, they weren't vulnerable when the item was made, which is my point.

Here is the status of this particular type of shell - which isn't necessarily the same as other Mexican or Japanese varieties of shell:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_clam