Zen gets 8 dan on KGS, while CrazyStone run on phone gets 6d

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Mike Novack
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Re: Zen gets 8 dan on KGS, while CrazyStone run on phone get

Post by Mike Novack »

pookpooi wrote:Hideki said that "It's well known that MC bots are not good at (high) handicap games." True to his words, even now Zen begins to has problem with 4 stones handicap games.


That might be an easy to misunderstand over generalization. INITIALLY (without some parameters being set) the MCTS algorithm can barely play against a handicap at all. I just described ONE approach that enables them to do so, "dynamic (changing) reverse komi" used in deciding who won a playout". But the correct values, initial starting vale of the reverse komi and the rate of decrease would have to be determined (tuned) for each number of handicap stones. And that would have to be redone every time the MCTS program had a major improvement. TAKES TIME (and effort). Even with a team to put in the effort I wouldn't expect to be right for quite a few months after each major improvement. And about the other possible approaches to allow MCTS progrms to play against handicap I know nothing. But I doubt any of them wouldn't also require adjustment involving much trial and error.

In other words, the statement should more correctly be interpreted "much of the time" which during times where the programs are rapidly improving become almost all the time << the new, improved version might be coming into use before the handicap adjustment done for the previous version >>
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Re: Zen gets 8 dan on KGS, while CrazyStone run on phone get

Post by Babelardus »

Marcel Grünauer wrote:
Babelardus wrote:On some sites yes, but there are still many that state that computers can't play Go above mid-range amateur level :)


Someone is wrong on the Internet! :)


Well... I just think it's funny that many sites still state that 'you are playing a game at which you can easily beat the very best computer programs in existence.' Even sites by Go associations and publishers still say that. It just makes them look as if they haven't been keeping up for 10 years.
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Re: Zen gets 8 dan on KGS, while CrazyStone run on phone get

Post by Jeromin »

Uberdude wrote:I'd like to see a Haylee vs Zen match!

It seems to do less well with handicap against weaker players [...] the handicap games might hold its rank bank (plus the inertia of KGS ranks).


Looking at ranked games with correct handicap for opponent, Zen wins more than it loses by more than ten games.
It does not seem all too affected by handicap.

My ipad server version of Crazy Stone was automatically upgraded to 2016 Deep learning KGS 7d, which will have to make do till I can buy a 12 core Xeon and an English version of Zen 6. As a SDK it should probably be enough :lol:
She generally gave herself very good advice, (though she very seldom followed it).
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