My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

mhlepore · Post by **mhlepore** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:44 am

Kirby wrote:Regarding counting, Inseong even recommends counting more than 2 at a time, sometimes...

I remember Edward Kim - a strong player in the Seattle area - would estimate the score with his fists. He'd ball up his hand into a fist and use it to roughly determine that he had (say) four fists worth of territory and his opponent only had a little more than three fists. Obviously as you get into endgame your counting will need to be more precise, but I found Edward's middle game assessment to be novel.

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:26 am

Thanks for the reports, Calvin. I haven't been able to make it to a congress yet, so I appreciate the insider's perspective. :-)

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:46 pm

Monday, I played my game. Why did I win my game? I do not know, but I was eating my breakfast through half the game. Maybe I was more relaxed. Also, my opponent's daughter interrupted him at a critical point which may have disturbed his concentration. I know the feeling...

One nice experience on Monday was meeting other students of Guo Juan 5p. Some of them are long-time students and/or people heavily involved in the internetgoschool.com website, and others are people like me who at one point or another took a class. It was good to put faces to names that I only knew on the internet.

I've been trying attend the teacher's workshop classes. I don't know if I'll get enough hours this week to get a certificate, but the certificate doesn't matter much to me. I like to hear about how other people teach go. Myungwan Kim 9p started this workshop idea taught some lectures last year. One of those that I enjoyed was on afterschool programs. He also taught a class in mathematical endgames. (If you are a mathematician this is not quite, say, Berlekamp level, though Howard Landman showed up at the Congress and said he was helping Myungwan improve his content. He said at lunch that he saw his name listed as co-presenter even though he hadn't seen Mygungwan's content and only had a couple of days to sort it out. It's much appreciated, though.

) Myungwan is very ambitious. He thinks the U.S. can become the center of go education in a few years. Some people in the audience were skeptical but he reminded them that some years ago people were skeptical of the program to create American professionals, too. Now we have them.

Lee Dahye 4p is teaching a number of classes with some draft material that she using for a baduk curriculum in Korea. This is beginner material and there is different order of topics for teaching children than teaching adults. (The children's books also have lots of cartoons and other games.) She is also a frequent personality on CyberOro (see, for example this video: this video.) I hope that her curriculum eventually gets translated into English, but it's early days.

I saw the Bao Yun blindfold demonstration:

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Nearby (and I mean in the same room, within earshot and in the direction he is facing), Mingjiu Jiang 7p was commenting on the game:

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It's pretty impressive to watch, but it's not as if this is a controlled environment. The retired James Randi would have had fun with this one.

In the evening, I attended Yilun Yang 7p's lecture. Sometimes he likes to talk about unusual openings, and he spent pretty much the whole lecture discussing how to think about opening on the 4-9 point:

: yy.jpg (54.26 KiB) Viewed 31799 times

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:35 am

Calvin Clark wrote:I saw the Bao Yun blindfold demonstration:

That was fun... watch for my EJournal article to be published soon (today, maybe)

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:42 am

Calvin Clark wrote:In the evening, I attended Yilun Yang 7p's lecture. Sometimes he likes to talk about unusual openings, and he spent pretty much the whole lecture discussing how to think about opening on the 4-9 point:

So... what did he say?

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:49 am

skydyr wrote:
Calvin Clark wrote:In the evening, I attended Yilun Yang 7p's lecture. Sometimes he likes to talk about unusual openings, and he spent pretty much the whole lecture discussing how to think about opening on the 4-9 point:

So... what did he say?

I'll try to explain. First I have to find a lawyer to help me with a potential contract dispute. (Not related to Go Congress.)

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:40 am

skydyr wrote:
Calvin Clark wrote:In the evening, I attended Yilun Yang 7p's lecture. Sometimes he likes to talk about unusual openings, and he spent pretty much the whole lecture discussing how to think about opening on the 4-9 point:

So... what did he say?

If continuing in the upper right or lower right corner, find the move that works best with :b1:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yilun Yang 7p often delivers a style of lecture where he starts playing a game with himself and asks the audience suggestions for moves. If someone suggests a move that is not optimal, then he explains why and also explains why good moves are good. It seems kind of improvised, but he may have specific topics in mind or a specific type of game that he wants to explain.

BTW, he considers this :b1:

playable and has himself played it and won against other pros. The important thing is that you have to always think about how to make your existing stones useful.

He told two funny stories. One was that when he was a child he first studied Chinese Chess, but wasn't that good at it. Later he learned go and was able to win local tournaments, even though he knew no joseki. Later on his teacher taught him these two joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W core repetoire $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . 4 . 3 . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He kept winning knowing just this, and of course made it to professional. His point is that while Chinese Chess required memorizing a lot of set patterns, he wasn't that good at that, and go doesn't require it.

Another story was that he had a student and sometimes observe the student's games and make suggestions. The student misclicked his first move and put it in some crazy place like the 7-5 and asked Mr. Yang if he should undo, but Mr. Yang said: "No undo! It's okay. Just make this move work."

After the lecture, I told him that while I would like to be able to play in such an imaginative way, I'm kind of addicted to pro games and if I play like that I won't be able to find anything similar to use as comparison. Furthermore, even if I ask dan-level players they will often not have an opinion on who is better in such an exotic position. He told me there is no real difference between 6k and 3d there and 3d won't judge better than I would anyway. Also, that this is mostly a way of thinking and that I may not be able to play like this yet but have to keep improving my reading and understanding.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:02 am

Interesting. I wonder why I am not 3D, yet, then. :-)

I like his idea of aiming to make your stones work together. This principle probably applies to both standard and non-standard openings.

So maybe his point is that this opening is just as good as a standard one for exercising your ability to make your stones work together?

If so, I kind of agree, but I also see your point that there are fewer pro examples to learn from with this type of opening.

On the other hand, having a pro-level opening doesn't win you the game anyway.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:02 am

Doing something cool on your day off?

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:09 pm

Kirby wrote:Doing something cool on your day off?

No. I had some errands and family things to attend to. In addition to the aforementioned distraction, I broke my eyeglasses on Day 1 and only today had a chance to take them to an optician, who messed with them for a couple of hours and then gave up. So I'm bringing those back to give to the place I bought them in case they have better luck.

I got to walk through Brookline, where I lived for a short period of time before moving to Washington state. Quaint neighborhoods.

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:20 pm

Kirby wrote:Interesting. I wonder why I am not 3D, yet, then.

I like his idea of aiming to make your stones work together. This principle probably applies to both standard and non-standard openings.

So maybe his point is that this opening is just as good as a standard one for exercising your ability to make your stones work together?

If so, I kind of agree, but I also see your point that there are fewer pro examples to learn from with this type of opening.

On the other hand, having a pro-level opening doesn't win you the game anyway.

His goal in these lectures is not to teach players to have a "good" opening, but a reasonable opening. That's a decent goal. If you understand what you are doing and your opponent is helpless out of the book, then you have an advantage.

Probably the funniest thing he said was that if you start out playing crazy moves, not only should your opponent's responses look crazy, but your own follow-ups should also be crazy. If you mix crazy and normal, it's no good.

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:15 pm

Monday night I missed dinner so I ate at the Sunset Cantina. I should say "ate" with some reservation because I suspect I consumed more calories in beer than in food. Whether this explains my behavior in game 3 is not easy to determine, but it's probably not the best preparation.

Tuesday. That was yesterday. Do I remember yesterday? Let me check my photos.

So sitting in the back of Myungwan Kim's lecture without distance glasses was not working for me. I moved up later.

: myungwan.png (320.07 KiB) Viewed 23074 times

Hey, it's team relay go, which is kind of a weird rengo / pair go / whatever on steroids. I can't explain, so here is the description from the guide:

"Team Relay Go is played by two teams of players over the course of several rounds. Each team is made up of pairs of players who are led by a captain. During each round, one pair from each team will play a fixed number of moves while the captain reviews the game with the rest of the team in another room. At the end of the round, active players return to the review area and the captains choose another pair to play the next round. At this event, a team of strong players from China will be playing a demo game against top players from America. Shortly after this event starts, tournament directors will host an open, unrated Team Relay Go event that will be accessible to all players. Coaches for the teams will be pro players, but they will NOT play."

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Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:45 pm

Kirby wrote:If you really want to get good at it, game records that don't end by resignation have the score already in the SGF file. So you can make flashcards or something with endgame positions, and you can practice this fast counting (e.g. counting by 2s, 10s, or whatever floats your boat).

I used to do more of that kind practice. The best I got was about 2.5 minutes to count the very end position, and I was often wrong. I tried this game right now. About 35 minutes to get even close to the right number of I try more than 1s. (In this case, 2s.) Even then I was 2 off and I misjudged the winner as I forget to count some points.

Black stones captured: 20
White stones captured: 8
Komi: 6.5
Japanese Rules

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Count $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O X X X . . . . . X X X X X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . X . X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . X O O . O O . | $$ | . . X O X X . . . X . . X O O , O . O | $$ | . . . O O X X . . . . X O . O . . O . | $$ | . O . O X . X . . . . X O . . O O . O | $$ | . X X O X . X X X X O X X O O X . O . | $$ | O O X O O X O O O X X O . O O O X O . | $$ | . O O X X X X O O O O O O O X X . X . | $$ | O X X X . X O X O O O O . . O X X . . | $$ | O O O X O . O X X X X X O O . . . . . | $$ | O X X . O . O . . . . X O O X X . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O . . X O O X X O . O . . | $$ | . . O O X . O . X O X X X O O . . O . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . X X O O . O | $$ | O . . O O X . O . X . . . . . X X O O | $$ | . O O O O X . X O O . . . . X . . X O | $$ | . . . . O X X O . X X . . . . . X . X | $$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In a nutshell, some of the difficultly with 2s is consistency of orientation. The black area in the upper center may be more natural to count as shown. (Actually one may be able to mentally arrange a rectangle in less time, but let's stick with 2s.) The upper right I may count as shown. In the bottom part, challenges appear if I am counting with horizontal pairs as shown. In big territories it's easy for the eyes to shift over one from the last pair counted this way. But if I get halfway through an area and decide I should have counted the other way, then I have to remember where I left off, etc.

(Here, 'h' means half pair. I literally cock my finger to keep track of the parity and if I hit an unmatched point I add one to the count and uncock my finger.)

Even in making this diagram, you can see another possible error that can occur. I'm not even going to correct it, but look carefully.

: 2s.png (579.63 KiB) Viewed 23056 times

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:25 pm

Well, if counting by 2s doesn't work for you, maybe counting by 1s is the way to go...

In some English go book, I recall the guy saying to compare relative sizes of territory in the middle game rather than getting a precise count. I haven't tried this, but maybe it's simpler?

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:25 pm

And keep up the good work with the pictures! :tmbup:

Life In 19x19

My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Monday at the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

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Re: Monday at the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: Monday at the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: Monday at the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

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Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Tuesday at the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress

Re: My experiences from the 2016 U.S. Go Congress