Am I having the right mentality? (21k v 18k, handicapped)

pocketMAD · Post by **pocketMAD** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:38 pm

I made a couple blunders, but my overall concern is whether I lack anything important in decision making. Such as should I choose this section over that section, should I surround this group or invade, etc.

I left some notes about what I was thinking at the moment. Anything, I'd appreciate.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:00 pm

Hi pocketmad,

You can reply to

or tenuki; this doesn't decide the game.

This hane is not joseki.
Before you hane you must read out the cut and variations.
On an open empty 19x19 board, the basic joseki is extend, not hane.
You may want to study why.

If B plays

hane without reading the global situation,
B could get into trouble:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B NOT joseki $$ | ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . ? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . ? $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . ? $$ | . . X X . . 4 . . , . ? $$ | . . O O X X 2 . 6 . . ? $$ | . . . . O O 1 3 . . . ? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . ? $$ --------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:13 pm

B suffers a loss from misunderstanding of

hane.

Study why this is a big mistake. Can you find the correct move ?

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:15 pm

Why, in your words, would you say you lost this game?

pocketMAD · Post by **pocketMAD** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:14 pm

Shaddy wrote:Why, in your words, would you say you lost this game?

The main parts were misreadings and assuming 19x19 joseki worked on a 13x13 board. I was also more interested in the center rather than sides and corners, but I don't know if that was as important as my first two reasons.

EdLee wrote: B suffers a loss from misunderstanding of hane.

Study why this is a big mistake. Can you find the correct move ?

I'm guessing you're pointing at the ladder-breaker stone in the middle. I was well aware of that. The reason I placed those stones there was I thought I could gain influence on the center while also gaining a large left corner.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:02 am

...pointing at the ladder-breaker...
I was well aware of that.
...influence on the center while
also gaining a large left corner.

Hi pocketmad,

Red herrings ( No to all ).
Please try once more: study the board more closely;
see if you can find the correct move for

.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:21 am

misreadings and assuming 19x19 joseki worked on a 13x13 board.

Misreadings: yes;
joseki: not exactly what you think.

Example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B joseki $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . $$ | . 2 X X . . . . . , . $$ | . 4 O O X X 1 . . . . $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ ------------------------[/go]

There are two issues here: joseki, and board size:

Joseki is extend (above diagram);
Your hane is not joseki;
Board size is another issue.

pocketMAD · Post by **pocketMAD** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:41 am

Hi pocketmad,

Red herrings ( No to all ).
Please try once more: study the board more closely;
see if you can find the correct move for .
$$Bm26
$$ --------------|
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X X O O . . |
$$ , . O X X O . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm26 $$ --------------| $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . X X O O . . | $$ , . O X X O . | $$ . . . . . 1 . | $$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

I came up with 2 solutions, none of which were yours. First, I could've placed a stone H4 instead of J5, giving the opponent center while I had side. Secondly, I could've placed a stone at the right star point, giving looks at my lower right 4-4 stone. Once again, none of those solutions were yours.

I actually have no idea whatsoever why you would want to place a stone at M5 aside from preventing open-skirtedness for a potential right side group.

Schachus · Post by **Schachus** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:29 pm

I'm Soryy if this sounds harsh, but:

pocketMAD wrote:
Hi pocketmad,

Red herrings ( No to all ).
Please try once more: study the board more closely;
see if you can find the correct move for .
$$Bm26
$$ --------------|
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X X O O . . |
$$ , . O X X O . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm26 $$ --------------| $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . X X O O . . | $$ , . O X X O . | $$ . . . . . 1 . | $$ . . . . . . . |[/go]
I came up with 2 solutions, none of which were yours. First, I could've placed a stone H4 instead of J5, giving the opponent center while I had side.

. Bad idea: your opponent will extend and your two stones are in trouble and will end up in bad shape(if you intend to sacrifice them, this will give him a far too happy life in the corner), which will make the life of his corner group too easy.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm26 $$ --------------| $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . X X O O . . | $$ , 1 O X X O . | $$ . . 2 . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

Secondly, I could've placed a stone at the right star point, giving looks at my lower right 4-4 stone. Once again, none of those solutions were yours.

TERRIBLE idea. This would let him capture your two stones in a ladder:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm26 $$ --------------| $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . X X O O . . | $$ , . O X X O . | $$ . . . 2 . . . | $$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

You see that the star point doesnt break it, right?
The result: he invaded where you were strong, made an overplay cut, resulting in you immediately "sacrificing" the surrounding stones giving him a huge corner, where he should struggle for life.

I actually have no idea whatsoever why you would want to place a stone at M5 aside from preventing open-skirtedness for a potential right side group.

His corner group is not alive yet. By enclosing him in the corner, you force hin to live small and get big outside more or less swallowing his cutting stone in sente, for example like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm26 $$ --------------| $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . 5 4 6 . . . | $$ . X X O O 2 . | $$ , . O X X O . | $$ . . . . . 1 . | $$ . . . . 3 . . |[/go]

After 27 connect and 28 protect, he needs to live in gote(for example with 29-31) after which he is small and enclosed, you get sente and the cut is not usefull.Do you see, why this would be a better result than the game?

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:47 pm

pocketMAD wrote:I actually have no idea whatsoever why you would want to place a stone at M5 aside from preventing open-skirtedness for a potential right side group.

Schachus made a detailed explanation, but in essence it's because when we play Go aka weiqi it's a surrounding game.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:37 am

pocketMAD wrote:my overall concern is whether I lack anything important in decision making.

I am going to post a review later, but just a quick comment.

pocketMAD wrote:I actually have no idea whatsoever why you would want to place a stone at M5 aside from preventing open-skirtedness for a potential right side group.

Your main lack in deciding where to play in go is a lack of knowledge and experience. Once you get a little more experience it will be obvious to you why you would play the hane at M-05.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:59 am

One thing that you need to learn is the strength and weakness of groups and stones. While in some cases that is easy, it is a large topic. It covers life and death problems, and then some.

You realize that go is a game of tradeoffs. That is good, but you are willing to give your opponent that which he does not have, by strengthening his stones or failing to attack them and by weakening your own stones or sacrificing them. Learning to sacrifice is good, but throwing away your strong stones and strengthening your opponent's weak stones is ill advised. At this point in your go career, paying attention to the strength and weakness of stones is probably more important than paying attention to territory. Fighting produces solid territory.

More details in the review.

pocketMAD · Post by **pocketMAD** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:53 am

Schachus wrote:I'm Soryy if this sounds harsh

Nonsense, man. I'm the student, you're the teacher. I can take it.

Schachus wrote: After 27 connect and 28 protect, he needs to live in gote(for example with 29-31) after which he is small and enclosed, you get sente and the cut is not usefull.Do you see, why this would be a better result than the game?

I get it. This clears a lot up, thank you.

Bill Spight wrote: I am going to post a review later, but just a quick comment.

Thank you so much! I appreciate it greatly.

Life In 19x19

Am I having the right mentality? (21k v 18k, handicapped)

Am I having the right mentality? (21k v 18k, handicapped)

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