Future projects/goals of the AGA

[shimari]

Just one other observation on the Congress pricing: The Europeans don't actually book rooms for their people, from what I understand. They have campsites available, and people can stay at hotels at their own expense. I think if you add the cost of lodging in, you will find that the US Congress is quite reasonably priced. I may be mistaken about this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that Euro Congress folk were sleeping on the floor in gymnasiums, and at campsites. Either of these options would be awful for me, I wouldn't attend if those were my choices.

On the other note, about the mentoring program, that is still going strong. It is an activity of the AGF though, not the AGA. I run the program, and we provide equipment and support to youth programs for free, and to College programs at a reduced rate, in conjunction with the AGA. More information on our activities is here: http://agfgo.org

[xed_over]

I wouldn't attend if those were my choices.

I think you meant, you wouldn't attend if those were your only choices.

I would be more likely to attend if I had at least those additional options.

[shimari]

New ideas for fund-raising appears to be of interest to the AGA right now. Clearly, fund-raising must be successful to allow other organizational goals to be met. Along that line of thought, I'll offer the following idea.

There are certain credit cards called affinity credit cards that instead of offering perks like free airline miles,instead make a small donation to specific non-profit organization with each purchase.

Would it be possible for the AGA to partner with a financial institution to offer an AGA affinity credit card (with awesome AGA logo)?

One such possible program is: capital one affinity portal.

links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_credit_card
https://www.cardlabconnect.com/AffinityPortal

I just looked at those affinity cards, and that seems like a really good idea. I am passing it on to the President and a board member. I would certainly carry an AGA credit card, we could even have a nice go stones image in the background, and the logo on top.

[Horibe]

Just one other observation on the Congress pricing: The Europeans don't actually book rooms for their people, from what I understand. They have campsites available, and people can stay at hotels at their own expense. I think if you add the cost of lodging in, you will find that the US Congress is quite reasonably priced.

In my opinion, if you want to convince people that the US Congress is reasonably priced, the last thing you want to do is make a comparison to the European prices.

The Registration fee for the US Congress is $325, $250 if you are under 22 years of age.

For one week.

Early registration in Finland, the fee is 100 euro (150 for later registration) kids under 12 are free and additional family members are discounted as much as 60%.

For two weeks.

The cheapest the US congress provides for accomadation is 325$ which requires a further $190 payment for the meal plan. That is more than 40 dollars a night for dorm style accomadations - the hotels listed on the European website start at about $40 euros per night, but that is per room, and you can bunk up with folks.

Since I know you run the Children's congress lets compare a family of 4 at both places. A dad player, a son 13 player and a daughter 10 player and a wife non player.

At the U.S. Dad - 325, Son - 250, Daughter - 250, Wife 60 - $885.

At the European - Dad 100, Son 80, Daughter - free, wife 60 or free - total 240 euros. FOR TWO WEEKS.

Lodging - U.S. 4 times 325 is the cheapest option - $1300. Plus another $760 for the meal plan.

Lodging Europe - the recomended hotel is "4 bedded" at 50 euros a night. A family could stay for 20 days for the US Congress price that you decide to argue compares favorably.

It is easy, even in the US, for 4 people to stay at a hotel - with breakfast, for under 100 a night.

Show me what compares favorably?

[shimari]

Ah, thank you for actual numbers - I have never seen any before. You are right, those prices are much cheaper. I have been involved in a number of congresses, and we have never been able to come anywhere close to any of those prices. As mentioned elsewhere, doing it at a hotel would actually be much more expensive for us. Perhaps this sort of thing is just cheaper in Europe.

Are the Euro congresses decentralized? By that I mean, are people staying at all sorts of different locations, and it is up to them to get to whichever events they go to? We try to have everything in walking distance, and all at the same site.

For reference, you can choose not to get the lodging/meal package, and we list which hotels are close on the congress website. In your example, a family of four who don't mind sharing two beds, could pay $647 for the week at a hotel. More realistically, two adults could share a room with two beds for $425 or so. These rates are at a Super8 Motel nearby, one of the cheaper chains in America, and they are still higher than you say it would be in Europe. You might need to have a car to stay at one of the offsite hotels though (in Portland it was right downtown, which was nice). These rates are cheaper than staying at the Congress location, depending on your situation. We don't require people to stay in any particular location, and many do choose hotels. Staying on campus is probably more fun though, and you have access to everything very quickly.

[daniel_the_smith]

Judging from my (limited) travels in Europe, we Americans are quite spoiled and are not generally willing to put up with the conditions at European hostel type accommodations. (I didn't mind too much but I know lots of people who would). I could be wrong but my impression is that hotels in the states are generally nicer and more expensive (approaching double).

[deja]

I only have experience with academic conferences, but a full week's expenses at such would be around $1300, which would include the program fee, hotel room, but without meals. These are held at rather large luxury hotels, with hotel conference rooms provided, large banquet halls for keynote speakers, exhibitor halls, etc. As long as the association fills the bank of rooms promised in the contract, the association actually makes money on the whole thing.

Of course, most academic conferences are only 5 days long at most and almost no one stays for the entire 5 days unless you're part of the conference crew. Hotels typically charge by the room, with minor added expenses for more than two individuals, e.g., kids. Nevertheless, students typically share rooms and expenses for the same cost as a single individual.

I'm sure the AGA has priced these options out, but it seems that given Horibe's figures, the difference is not all that much, especially considering the vast difference in accommodations. I suppose figuring in meals for an entire week would change things, but $760 for a meal plan is beyond excessive in my opinion.

[shimari]

I suppose figuring in meals for an entire week would change things, but $760 for a meal plan is beyond excessive in my opinion.

Our meal plan is $190 dollars, for three meals a day and basically 6 days with full food service. That is about $10 per meal, which doesn't seem particularly excessive to me.

[deja]

I suppose figuring in meals for an entire week would change things, but $760 for a meal plan is beyond excessive in my opinion.

Our meal plan is $190 dollars, for three meals a day and basically 6 days with full food service. That is about $10 per meal, which doesn't seem particularly excessive to me.

Yes, that changes things quite a bit. My bad...

[PGWM]

Membership, or the lack thereof, is a real problem for the AGA. One thing worth considering is mandating the chapter heads to call TV stations and newspapers well in advance of a tournament and getting it published. good press is important to let parents know there is something out there called go. most people have no @@@@ing idea that there is Go. I am ashamed of the AGA for this.

In addition, many of the Asian papers around the US would love to see tournaments about go published in their papers.

We need to publish our tournaments and get people involved.

Just some thoughts,

PGWM


PS: Another thing is Congress pricing. It's stupid. I pay $35.00 per year to pay $325 for 6 days. the Euro Congress is apparently much better for much cheaper.

This is surprising, I never thought the EU folks could agree on much of anything. I wonder who actually makes these deals such that the prices are so high here in the US?

can anyone shed light on the approximate costs of the 2011 congress in LA?

[gowan]

I thought the cheap accomodations at the European Go Congress basically amounted to a space on a gymnasium floor to stretch a sleeping bag. I think such things are not available at US Colleges or Universities, where the congresses are usually held, due to insurance concerns. Actually, noone is prevented from pitching a tent at a camp ground in the area, but apparently very few people want to do it. I think the US Congresses are generally a good deal financially and people should stop complaining. If they think it is possible to do it for substantially less let them sign up to plan a congress and see what happens. A lot of this complaining about the AGA seems like kibitzers taking pot shots if you ask me. How about some constructive criticism for a change? People want things to be different but they aren't willing to do what is necessary to make things different. You want the tournaments to be advertised in Asian language newspapers? Then place the ads yourself, a small enough thing.

[uglyboxer]

I thought the cheap accomodations at the European Go Congress basically amounted to a space on a gymnasium floor to stretch a sleeping bag. I think such things are not available at US Colleges or Universities, where the congresses are usually held, due to insurance concerns. Actually, noone is prevented from pitching a tent at a camp ground in the area, but apparently very few people want to do it. I think the US Congresses are generally a good deal financially and people should stop complaining. If they think it is possible to do it for substantially less let them sign up to plan a congress and see what happens. A lot of this complaining about the AGA seems like kibitzers taking pot shots if you ask me. How about some constructive criticism for a change? People want things to be different but they aren't willing to do what is necessary to make things different. You want the tournaments to be advertised in Asian language newspapers? Then place the ads yourself, a small enough thing.

While I am not a particular fan of the AGA, I would like to heartily second this thought. Having worked in the planning and execution of a Congress I don't have any idea of where you would significantly cut the budget to lower the cost to the attendees. If Go were big enough to have substantial sponsors, maybe. Or if the AGA were a big enough entity to harbor a trust for the production costs of Congresses. But unfortunately they are not, yet.
I have no experience with the European Congress, so I can't say why they can do it cheaper. Just glancing at their webpage, it would appear the registration costs are about half what they are in the US, and I will grant that that is cheap for a week's worth of activities (runs two weeks, but I extrapolated back to 1 week to compare with USGC). But I also don't think the USGC registration fees are exorbitant for 9 or 10 days of high quality activities (18 or more hours a day). I think people's expectations on this topic are simply growing unreasonable.

[oren]

I think costs have to be looked at more as well. I don't need the congress to take care of food and housing (which is more expensive than me finding a hotel and eating out). Even in this case, if I want to show up and play at the tournament, I was going to to be down $425 for the last congress. This did seem excessively high to me, and if that's high to me, there has to be others who feel the same.

[uglyboxer]

Even in this case, if I want to show up and play at the tournament, I was going to to be down $425 for the last congress. This did seem excessively high to me...

I agree that would be excessive to play in a single 6-round tournament. But that is only one facet of what the congress is meant to be. The acces to professionals for lessons, seminars, simuls, and reviews. The chance to meet, play with, and exchange ideas with people from around the world. These are what the registration fee mostly pays for. If those don't interest you, fine. Perhaps the Open should be a separate registration fee from the Congress in general. One more in line with a standard tournament. Of course, it would come with an escort to the door at noon each day, before the fun really began.
And the housing/meal options are always optional as far as I know. You can always track down those arrangements on your own.

[oren]

Even in this case, if I want to show up and play at the tournament, I was going to to be down $425 for the last congress. This did seem excessively high to me...

I agree that would be excessive to play in a single 6-round tournament. But that is only one facet of what the congress is meant to be. The acces to professionals for lessons, seminars, simuls, and reviews. The chance to meet, play with, and exchange ideas with people from around the world. These are what the registration fee mostly pays for. If those don't interest you, fine. Perhaps the Open should be a separate registration fee from the Congress in general. One more in line with a standard tournament. Of course, it would come with an escort to the door at noon each day, before the fun really began.

All I'm saying is let's see a breakdown of those costs. There are professional workshops that cost significantly less than the congress on a per day basis. Meeting people from all over the world is a great thing, but it's not an additional cost to the congress. If costs can be lowered, participation is higher. I think we can agree with that. Turning the congress into an exclusive event for the folks who can afford it should be avoided.

And the housing/meal options are always optional as far as I know. You can always track down those arrangements on your own.

Yes, after going to Portland, I realized it made a lot more sense to do that at a congress. I did a price comparison for Colorado Springs and there it would have saved money too.