Review against bot

[anpd]

Hi, haven't reviewed any game in a long while so would be really glad if anyone would take the time to review my game. I usually play on my phone and not against real people. This is a game against Championship Go level 9 on iPhone. Anyone know the approximate strength at that setting? I am black and the end score is W+1.5

[Knotwilg]

Hi

The opening is really very good for a game at this level, up until the 60s.
At 63 and on other occasions, you follow the opponent around, answering "threats" that are really none.

For a small loss like this one, we can zoom in on a late exchange that lost points, that is symptomatic for overall "soft" play:

At 117, why do you play this move? Can you estimate its value?
Compare with the move White plays next, at 118. How big is that?

I think I know why you play this way: on a phone, the board is very small and the mind becomes very lazy. I suspect not too much thinking goes into this kind of game. Or you may become tired of watching such a small screen.

Don't expect too much improvement from playing bots on cell phones.

But the opening was rather nice.

[anpd]

Hi

The opening is really very good for a game at this level, up until the 60s.
At 63 and on other occasions, you follow the opponent around, answering "threats" that are really none.

For a small loss like this one, we can zoom in on a late exchange that lost points, that is symptomatic for overall "soft" play:

At 117, why do you play this move? Can you estimate its value?
Compare with the move White plays next, at 118. How big is that?

I think I know why you play this way: on a phone, the board is very small and the mind becomes very lazy. I suspect not too much thinking goes into this kind of game. Or you may become tired of watching such a small screen.

Don't expect too much improvement from playing bots on cell phones.

But the opening was rather nice.

Thanks for taking the time to look at the game! Thanks for the opening remarks I find that I can play the opening pretty well against reasonable play. Just started playing on Tygem at the 10k level and the opening play by my opponents is horrible so my play also is a lot worse because I have a hard time to punish overplays and similar, that continues to some degree through out the game.

I know that following my opponent is one of my biggest weaknesses and also that I play a bit to safe and don't start fights (which I am pretty bad at handling). Looking at move 117 it looks like it's only worth 1 point and move 118 6-7 points?

Your right about not having the right mentality when playing on the phone, pay much more attention when playing online. Will try to do more of that. Any suggestions for pro games to look at for pro's with a more passive style, still attacking but not fighting as much perhaps? Thanks again.

[Knotwilg]

Looking at move 117 it looks like it's only worth 1 point and move 118 6-7 points?

Yes, slightly more than 1 pt due to the ko and something around 6 points.

Your right about not having the right mentality when playing on the phone, pay much more attention when playing online. Will try to do more of that. Any suggestions for pro games to look at for pro's with a more passive style, still attacking but not fighting as much perhaps? Thanks again.

Personally, I don't believe that emulating a pro's style who befits yours, is at all meaningful at our level. But I've done it myself, with Otake Hideo, so I understand what you mean. Also Lee ChangHo has a seemingly quiet style.

Enjoy.

[Joaz Banbeck]

The opening is really very good for a game at this level, up until the 60s...

I felt that 13 was incompatible with the rest of the black stones. Black has a good framework taking shape on the right side. Yet by pincering tightly, black allows white a well-known joseki that lets white amble into black's sphere of influence, neutralizing much of it. Move 24 really hurt.

IMHO, at move 13 Black should have played a high two-space pincer. Or maybe even a three-space pincer. A move like those brings the black right side alive.

[anpd]

Personally, I don't believe that emulating a pro's style who befits yours, is at all meaningful at our level. But I've done it myself, with Otake Hideo, so I understand what you mean. Also Lee ChangHo has a seemingly quiet style.

You are probably right, still interesting to view games from time to time. Thanks for the suggestions!

The opening is really very good for a game at this level, up until the 60s...

I felt that 13 was incompatible with the rest of the black stones. Black has a good framework taking shape on the right side. Yet by pincering tightly, black allows white a well-known joseki that lets white amble into black's sphere of influence, neutralizing much of it. Move 24 really hurt.

IMHO, at move 13 Black should have played a high two-space pincer. Or maybe even a three-space pincer. A move like those brings the black right side alive.

Yes I see that you are right, haven't really studied how to play two or three-space pincers but will look into it!

[Pio2001]

Just started playing on Tygem at the 10k level and the opening play by my opponents is horrible so my play also is a lot worse because I have a hard time to punish overplays and similar, that continues to some degree through out the game.

I had the same problem. Sometimes the solution, when we don't see how to punish, is to play the standard move all the same. As a result, our position is good, and the opponent's is not optimal, which is a bit better than playing the standard opening.

Of course, each case is different, and we must adapt our play, but trying to "punish" overplays at all cost is a bad idea. Sometimes, overplays are self-punishing, and trying to punish is an overplay in itself.

If you don't know how to answer a strange move, don't try anything foolish. Play something normal.

And if you can't understand at all the meaning of your opponent's move, well, just ignore it, and play good extensions.

[anpd]

Just started playing on Tygem at the 10k level and the opening play by my opponents is horrible so my play also is a lot worse because I have a hard time to punish overplays and similar, that continues to some degree through out the game.

I had the same problem. Sometimes the solution, when we don't see how to punish, is to play the standard move all the same. As a result, our position is good, and the opponent's is not optimal, which is a bit better than playing the standard opening.

Of course, each case is different, and we must adapt our play, but trying to "punish" overplays at all cost is a bad idea. Sometimes, overplays are self-punishing, and trying to punish is an overplay in itself.

If you don't know how to answer a strange move, don't try anything foolish. Play something normal.

And if you can't understand at all the meaning of your opponent's move, well, just ignore it, and play good extensions.

Thanks for the suggestion, yes that makes sense. One good thing about playing on Tygem is that I am forced to fight. They don't play passive!

[anpd]

Here is a game I just played on Tygem, that probably is more representative. Big misses from both.

[Knotwilg]

This game was terminated early with a big fight, which is the highlight of the game.
The theme of this review turns out to be the "empty triangle". Whenever you find yourself making one, consider another move until you are convinced that the empty triangle is really the best move in these circumstances (in the whole of this game, it wasn't)

51 - very good attacking move
77 - one attack leading to another, again this is a great point to attack
various empty triangles indicate that moves were not optimal
99 - in the heat of the fight, there is no time to waste; yet another empty triangle
107 - very good tackle of the shape point; still White can win the race, due to previous moves
133 - there was much more to do and this is plain to see from the ... empty triangle
159 - what does this move do?
175 - many players would be atari blind in these circumstances; you kept your eye on your liberties and this is a very important mental strength that avoids stupid losses; well done

Full review

[anpd]

This game was terminated early with a big fight, which is the highlight of the game.
The theme of this review turns out to be the "empty triangle". Whenever you find yourself making one, consider another move until you are convinced that the empty triangle is really the best move in these circumstances (in the whole of this game, it wasn't)

51 - very good attacking move
77 - one attack leading to another, again this is a great point to attack
various empty triangles indicate that moves were not optimal
99 - in the heat of the fight, there is no time to waste; yet another empty triangle
107 - very good tackle of the shape point; still White can win the race, due to previous moves
133 - there was much more to do and this is plain to see from the ... empty triangle
159 - what does this move do?
175 - many players would be atari blind in these circumstances; you kept your eye on your liberties and this is a very important mental strength that avoids stupid losses; well done

Thanks for the review, very helpful. Will keep an eye out for the empty triangle, know it's bad shape. Move 133 I don't know what I did, I saw the hane when I reviewed the game myself afterwards.
For move 159 I wasn't paying attention that he was out, I thought he was contained... So missed a threat. And yes should have lost the game in the capture race. Was surprised I didn't.

[Alicia]

Looks promising game....yes opening is quite impressive. over all impression is Good

[Bill Spight]

A couple of comments on the bot game.

Black lost more than 4 points in the endgame by letting White get the two largest plays on the board in sente. Go to move 129.