Do you want to become stronger? Why?

[Kirby]

@hyperpape:
Yes, pretty much I mean, "do I like doing this" when I say "worthwhile".

I know that nobody is going to tell me to "yes, play go" or "no, do not play go".

Mainly, the intention I had in this thread was to gather concrete reasons people had for wanting to get stronger. Those reasons, perhaps, I could use as inspiration.

While others have pointed out that passion is not necessary for studying, I find it more enjoyable when I have passion for what I'm learning. And maybe more efficient, too.

I figured that, maybe, people would have reasons for aiming to get stronger that could give me a new perspective, which could, in turn, lead to more passion.

In general, I'd like to have more passion in my pursuits, but a common scenario I find myself in is:
1.) I reach some level of competency in something
2.) My passion dies down, and I become somewhat satisfied or complacent with further improvement.

It's not just with go. My work is like this, too. I gain some level of competency, maybe get promoted a couple of times, then my interest dies down; I could aim to be promoted again or get more money, but it's a little boring. If I already have a good amount of money X, does it matter if I make 120% of X? Kind of, but not that much. Or if I already have Y expertise and feel somewhat capable, do I need 120% of Y expertise?

I kind of feel, "Meh - why not?". But this is far from passion.

One answer is to pursue a new endeavor and learn something new. That's not a bad idea.

But somehow, I feel an emptiness or shallowness in pursuing several endeavors without knowing any well.

Being a "jack of all trades, but master of none" can perhaps allow me to maintain the passion and fresh feeling of learning new things. But sometimes I wonder if I'd gain a deeper happiness by learning something deeply.

In that sense, maybe I just need discipline. Or perhaps I should focus on the positive aspects of learning something deeply, trusting that it will eventually lead to greater enlightenment...

Or maybe I just think too much about what's "worthwhile", and I should just study

[Bantari]

Looking back at my Go life wrt motivation I can divide it into 3 separate periods:

1. As a weak kyu player, I wanted to improve so I could understand more of the game - mainly what the heck the stronger players were talking about when they were discussing their games. Where I grew up, the club I played in had a wide spread of players, from absolute beginner (me) to a visiting 1d player from Japan. In-between were a few SDK players. So when anybody talked about Go, I was lost - and that bothered me. Also, the feeling of constant tangible improvement was intoxicating - I really loved that. But you can only feel that when you are very weak.

2. When I reached high kyu level (3-1k) I started playing in a bigger clubs (mainly due to moving to Germany, the Canada, then US) - and i discovered a 'buddy' system. I always had a friend, just slightly stronger then me, maybe a stone or two at most, and my motivation to improve was derived from the will to beat him and surpass him. When I did, I moved on to a next target. And sometimes the friend I left behind piggy-backed me and I had to chase him again. This was fun!

3. I peaked around 5d AGA and realized that it takes a lot of effort to stay at that level and even more effort to improve. It as not enough to have fun and play games anymore. And I was not willing to do it. Also, life came in- between, job, marriage, house... I did not have time anymore to play Go every day. On top of that, my strong friends from the club stopped coming (on account of jobs) so I did too. And I really could never take on-line games very seriously. No feeling to it, for me.

And that's that. Right now, I really do not feel the need to get stronger. But if I looked for motivation, I think the one that would work for me would be to figure out how strong I can really get if I applied myself - since I never really did. Could I make it back to 5d? Sure... Could I get to 6d? I am confident I could. Could I make 7d? Dunno... possibly. Beyond that? It would be exciting... And this would be what would drive me - to see how far I can get if I put my mind to it.

Maybe one day... heh.

[Gotraskhalana]

Do you want to become stronger? Why?

I think that this is a very strange question as a desire for mastery and control is one of the basic human drives. There is the story of a severely handicapped toddler who could just move her head a little bit and nothing else, no smiles, no interactions. Then someone installed a wire system that connected here head movement to some ornaments over the crib that would move when she moved her head. Her reaction was to smile for the first time in her life.

It is another question why I decided on go at all instead of something else, but as long as I spend time on go, I want to be good at it. I also want a good *rank*, but this is mostly for social reasons. Many people in the go community treat people very differently based on rank and I do not mean things where it is obviously meaningful to do so.

Also, I generally derive a lot of enjoyment from learning things and figuring out things. Learning is not a hardship for me at all.

I'm interested in people's passion for the game and how much it drives them.

I've met a couple of Chinese people over the years who have reached respectively pro-level and almost pro-level, and gave up playing because it was clear to them they weren't going to reach the top and it was time to find an alternative career.

I find it somewhat incredible you have have the motivation to reach such a high-level where Go becomes the major part of your life, and suddenly just stop playing.

I do not find it incredible at all. I know other people who had to give up a world-class career in other areas (music, sports) due to injuries. The activity is forever linked to your broken dream and whenever you do it again you feel the difference between your current skill and your former skill. It is no more incredible than people who pretend that their first marriage did not exist at all.

For most of my life, I have cycled through my hobbies. I'll spend a lot of time pursuing something that interests me, and then take a break from it and invest that time in something else. This pattern comes naturally to me, but it doesn't reflect who I want to be. I have a desire to be a person who chooses a few things and sticks with them. I don't want to step away from a hobby when my attention wanders or the going gets tough.

Being a "jack of all trades, but master of none" can perhaps allow me to maintain the passion and fresh feeling of learning new things. But sometimes I wonder if I'd gain a deeper happiness by learning something deeply.

In that sense, maybe I just need discipline. Or perhaps I should focus on the positive aspects of learning something deeply, trusting that it will eventually lead to greater enlightenment...

Or maybe I just think too much about what's "worthwhile", and I should just study

Why do you both want so much to be someone you are not? Never letting go of things also has its downsides. Especially in go. Think of the hobby changing as a sacrifice of stones. If it is the right time for the sacrifice, you should embrace it.

[jeromie]

Why do you both want so much to be someone you are not? Never letting go of things also has its downsides. Especially in go. Think of the hobby changing as a sacrifice of stones. If it is the right time for the sacrifice, you should embrace it.

I'm fine with letting go of things intentionally, and I've done so in the past without regret. Sacrifice has its place; it's allowing stones to get cut off because I'm not paying attention that I wish to avoid. There may come a day when leaving go behind is the right thing to do, but I want to make that choice with intention rather than just finding I accidentally dropped it by the wayside.

[Bonobo]

“Do you want to become stronger? Why?”

No, not really, not anymore … it just happens that I get stronger by one stone every year or half.

And consequently, the second question would be “why not?” in my case … so, why not?
Well, life’s stressing me enough already, I don't need that in a game also. Plus, I have realized that in this life I won’t reach a strength that would impress anybody anyway

Currently oscillating between weak SDK and strong DDK, that’s exciting enough already

[joellercoaster]

it just happens that I get stronger

On reflection, this is pretty deep.

I play a lot because I love to play, and I try to win. I review my games because it's interesting to see what I didn't think about. I watch videos because it kills time on my commute and is otherwise enjoyable. I very occasionally replay a pro game because it's just cool.

As a result, I get stronger as a side effect.

Lifehack proposal: teach myself to enjoy studying technique books and doing tsumego, accidentally get much stronger much faster

[RigofMidgard]

I want to get stronger just so I can beat the man who introduced me to the game haha. After that my goal is to get to Dan level. I doubt I can make pro before 30 so that is out of the picture for me. I'm 23 right now and I don't have the time needed to get to that level of expertise so quickly I don't think.

[Javaness2]

I want to become stronger, but I don't really have any free time in which to actually do so. There is a sense of satisfaction to be had in being able to feel that you know something about the truth of this game. However, the more I learn, the less certain I become of the truth. I don't know if anyone else has had the same experience. Watching commentary on AlphaGo really brings it home to me that so much of what we learn and accept to be true might actually be carp. I mean I already knew certain things got outdated and lost their acceptance, but AlphaGo really accelerated that. Still, it's fun to see the new ideas Master has. I bet Peter Pratt would have been proud.

[FuriousGeorge]

I think for me it comes down to competition and fun.

Coming from a heavy videogame background, I found Go unique because of it's depth. I've always had a competitive drive and a love for games. There's nothing quite as fun as an evenly matched game, regardless of what it is. There is thrill in winning, and there is humility in losing.

With Go, the competition is so deep. The ranking system helps you find those fun evenly matched games. I know there will always be an opponent to face. It's a way to test myself, to find my weaknesses, self-analyze and improve.

I know I'll never be a professional player, but I DO know that Go is a game I will always be challenged by. It scratches that competitive itch and it's FUN.

(It also won't be replaced every year by the next big thing that comes out... TF2, CS:GO, Overwatch, [insert next thing] ).

[skydyr]

To post the somewhat contrary opinion, no, I don't.

I mean, I like the idea of becoming stronger, but frankly, it's not something I'm willing to prioritize right now, and not something that I expect to change in the near future. Someday, I suppose, I'll start studying again, but I have more important (to me) things to do in the meanwhile.

These days, go is something I vaguely keep my hand in playing a few correspondence games and once a month or so at a club, plus a bit of dabbling on here, and I have no real desire to change that. I can tell I'm not as strong as I have been in the past, but that's ok.