My games, looking for analysis!

OnoNoGo · Post by **OnoNoGo** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:47 pm

Hey guys!

I want to first thank you for your time in advance. I will post the interesting games I play here, trying to keep it all under the same topic. I'm looking for any advice from any level. I welcome all opinion from strong players but also from my peers trying to progress

everyone knows something that I don't, so feel free to comment my games whatever level you're at!

To begin with, here is a 2 stones handicap game I played against a 9-kyu today. I felt like I made mistakes but also that my reading was often right. I tend to attack too much and I leave my structures very weak in the process, but it was my opponent who let himself get in a very difficult position. I wish I had seen the genocide at the end, but at least I knew that he was under heavy pressure.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:52 pm

Hi Ono,

D15. ( What's your feeling of

if W ignores you? )

o18 / D15 big. ( What's your follow-up of

? )

E3.

Bad habit. Connect directly at D4.

You already wasted a move on

.
Connecting directly at D4 does the job of (

+

).
If

connects directly at D4, and

still drops to A2,
would you spend another move here?

Soft. Double hane G2.

Did you read the cut ?

What if W cuts H3 ?

H16.

Played by feel -- no reading of all the cuts and local fights involved.

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:18 pm

A few comments. Congratulations on the win!

OnoNoGo · Post by **OnoNoGo** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:28 am

EdLee wrote:Hi Ono,

D15. ( What's your feeling of if W ignores you? )

o18 / D15 big. ( What's your follow-up of ? )

E3.

Bad habit. Connect directly at D4.

You already wasted a move on .
Connecting directly at D4 does the job of ( + ).
If connects directly at D4, and still drops to A2,
would you spend another move here?
Hopefully, no. But that's the result in the game.
Soft. Double hane G2.

Did you read the cut ?

What if W cuts H3 ?

H16.

Played by feel -- no reading of all the cuts and local fights involved.

Hi EdLee

Thank you a lot for taking the time to comment.

I can see how important D15 is indeed. About

, my initial thought was that I solidify the corner and thus I felt like I succeeded when W ignored the move and played elsewhere. Now that I look at it with your comment, it feels useless without D15 compared to other juseki that grabs a lot more space.

I'm not sure about my follow up of

but as my other stone was at R13, I thought again protecting the corner was enough. What kind of juseki should I play (and why) for this type of postion in the corner?

that's correct, I completely misread this. No excuse here.

From

to

I imagine that you're talking about connecting at B4 and not D4. That's a mistake I wasn't aware of, thank you for pointing it out.

Oh double hane at G2, interesting. I imagine W would cut at G3 and then I have trouble calculating the follow-up. As I was building influence towards the other side, is the goal to sacrifice a stone and stop W here?

I read the cut yes, and decided it was good for me but I believe I was mistaking and should have kept following him if he wanted his stones to walk down the line. He wouldn't be making much territory and I would have monster influence on the other side.

a cut at H3 would definitely hurt, even more when I had him restricted to a single line of territory.

H16 indeed. I feel like I still have trouble seeing those simple move that both continue grabbing territory, keep a level of initiative and solidify the structure. I will pay more attention to this in other games.

you are correct, I played this one entirely on feeling. I got scared of the potential territory he was building. I wanted to attack it and I have over-estimated this move. It might work somehow but I would not be surprised if there are more than 10 other way to get at his central influence.

Calvin Clark wrote:A few comments. Congratulations on the win!

Thank you! And thanks for the very good comments!
I'll have a look at the Butterfly structure, looks like it is very good to know it.

At

I did not see your variation. I imagine it starts with E3 as EdLee pointed but please tell me more if you can.

is playing C14 better here?

thank you for showing me the bulge, I will be sure to use it.

totally correct. I just got scared of the potential territory W was building and it got me to play without reason.

Thanks to both of you again!

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:34 am

Hi Ono,

Oh double hane at G2, interesting. I imagine W would cut at G3 and then I have trouble calculating the follow-up.

Study W's shape. ( And yes, the overall result; have to read a bit farther.

)

OnoNoGo · Post by **OnoNoGo** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:59 am

EdLee wrote:Hi Ono, Study W's shape. ( And yes, the overall result; have to read a bit farther. )

I'm going to set it up on my freshly acquired Goban and take my time to understand this shape.

In the meantime, here is a game I just finished. I won but I feel like I gave way too much to my opponent. All comments are welcome!

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:57 am

Hi Ono,

What are you trying to do with this move ?
Are you trying to make a base ?

Does this exchange help W settle?

Does this exchange help B?

Does the exchange

-

help or hurt this move?

If B wants to kill, P18 -- locally, W is dead shape.

Can W make a base there?

Slow, small.

Maybe B is building strength here to attack L15. Let's see what B does from here...

If you can see B is aiming to attack L15,
you would not continue to reply here to help B and hurt your L15 group.
You need to take care of L15 ; e.g. L13, etc.

-

Locally, this shape not good for B.

Unclear what B is doing. L13, etc. to attack L15 makes more sense.

Yes, but W not out of the woods yet.

Strange. L11, etc.

Is your L15 group safe yet?

This contradicts all of (

...

).

Help your L15 group, not your strong

.

What are you trying to do with this wedge?
B gives you a very good opportunity to get ahead with the hane L7.
You're very happy to play L7 to help L15.

Locally, can you do better?

Is this sente?

Unreasonable and greedy. See above.

Not the way to kill W. ( L11, etc. )

Maybe M11, etc. better...

Not the way to kill.

Not the way to kill. He's helping you make eyes.

Black suffers severely from follow-itis here --
instead of hitting the vital points to limit your eyeshapes,
he submissively follows you around.

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:25 pm

OnoNoGo wrote: At I did not see your variation. I imagine it starts with E3 as EdLee pointed but please tell me more if you can.

Thank you for pointing that out. I have been pulling my hair out to figure out why inlining in sgf tags doesn't work properly, so I just made it an attachment and referenced it that way. Variations should show in the web control now. (The did if you downloaded and opened in an SGF editor.) I have to fix my other recent posts as well, it seems.

OnoNoGo wrote: is playing C14 better here?

If you are suggesting playing the clamp at 'a', I don't think so. White has ignored black's kick at

. White would normally have played at 'b' instead of tenuki, but perhaps white is thinking to play fast since this is a handicap game. When white tenukis a kick like that, playing where white ought to have played is quite big and can usually be played fairly soon. The upper right tenuki for white is a bit different. Now, both white and black would like the point at 'c' if possible.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B the clamp $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . B , . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O b . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | X X O O O X X . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | O O . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

You can read a bit more about the Kick.

With respect to the clamp, probably white will extend up at

and then black will connect at

. But this gives white a few local choices for follow-up, such as 'a', 'b', 'c'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B white has choices $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . a X , . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 3 O 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . b 1 c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | X X O O O X X . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | O O . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another idea for white is to think, well, black has played 3 stones locally to my 1, so I'm going to treat it lightly and take a big move elsewhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B 4 stones to capture my 1? Fine! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | X X O O O X X . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | O O . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Depending on how the game goes from here,

may still become a headache for black. It's not 100% dead if white gets a few extra stones around there.

EdLee has commented well on your other game. I'd like to see one you lost, though.

Edit: a little more about the clamp. A clamp is like ignoring a peep, and even a moron connects against a peep..

Even though this may look okay to you...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B clamp (bad) $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . 2 . . . . $$ . . . X O 1 . . . $$ . . . . 3 4 . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . .[/go]

It's the same result as if black ignored a peep and white pushed through and cut. Now it probably doesn't look as good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W tewari ( :b2: elsewhere) $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . 1 . . . . $$ . . . X 3 X . . . $$ . . . . 4 5 . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Of course sometimes the clamp is a tesuji. That's usually in the endgame on the edge of the board when the cuts aren't a problem, or in some cases of light play. Plays that are usually bad we call tesuji when they turn out to be good.

OnoNoGo · Post by **OnoNoGo** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:17 am

Thank you EdLee for you many great comments. I'm learning a lot.

And thanks to you as well Calvin! This is indeed very strong, and I'll be sure to notice the kick in the future. I'm reading the link that you shared right now. And I'll post a losing game very soon

just need to have one that doesn't end because of a very huge and stupid mistake

OnoNoGo · Post by **OnoNoGo** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:56 am

You know what Calvin, let's not waste time and let's post a losing game from yesterday

In this game I felt like I was really well out of the opening and then the middle-game was getting better and better for me. But a costly misread and everything went to pieces.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:38 am

Hi Ono,

D6.

G17, cut and link up.

...

my guess is you didn't have a plan, a global plan.
You were just playing "locally", and reacting to (following) B, one move at a time.

OnoNoGo · Post by **OnoNoGo** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:29 pm

EdLee wrote:Hi Ono,

... my guess is you didn't have a plan, a global plan.
You were just playing "locally", and reacting to (following) B, one move at a time.

Hi EdLee
Actually I thought following him was more beneficial for me than for him. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought my influence towards the center was greater than his. And that would allow me to grab territory there. I thought I was winning after

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:41 pm

Hi Ono,

It's true: your center stones

..

were more useful than his "neutral" stones

..

.
How to use your stones efficiently decides the game.

OnoNoGo · Post by **OnoNoGo** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:15 am

Here is a game I played today where I feel nothing went well. As I often lose against aggressive players like him, could you please point out the mistakes I made? I have plenty identified, but I'm sure there is a lot more I'm not seeing with my amateur's eyes.

Thank you very much!

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:44 am

EdLee wrote:Hi Ono,

It's true: your center stones .. were more useful than his "neutral" stones .. .
How to use your stones efficiently decides the game.

I agree, but...

My feeling is black was a bit of a puppy dog for that sequence, following white around. Because black has H18, black's dragon is not in real danger, so black could have played e.g., K15 instead of F10.

Ono, considering how the game evolved after this, how do you feel about move

now? Which other moves did you consider?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Move 44 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O . X . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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