Baduk and business

[tekesta]

Recently I had a friend criticize me for devoting so much time to baduk, saying that instead I should devote more time to activities with greater potential for economic gain, such as investing. I would like to tell him that it is possible to learn from playing baduk some general lessons applicable to the world of business, but my friend is not a baduk player. How does one explain the link between baduk and business to one who is not familiar with the game, or at least make clear that baduk is not necessarily an idle pastime? Any help, great or small, will be greatly appreciated.

[Solomon]

I would say your friend has a very sad view of how activities should be pursued. That being said, Troy Anderson wrote a book called "The Way of Go: 8 Ancient Strategy Secrets for Success in Business and Life" that might interest you. I don't know much about the book itself, but I do know that Troy isn't just a businessman who learned Go for 5 minutes and decided to write a book on the parallels. He studied as an insei in Japan and is an AGA 6d, so at the very least he is a businessman who is very passionate about Go.

[Kirby]

If you want to make a lot of money, pursue money. If you want to play go, pursue that.

Neither is intrinsically better than the other, in my opinion.

Life is temporary, so spend time on what you want.

[daal]

Sure there are parallels between go and business, just as there are parallels between go and chess, go and war, go and dating, etc. Being good at one may indicate a proclivity for another, but whether it will actually help you perform another task is a different matter. For one, time spent on one activity is time not spent on another. Go can surely enrich your life, but rarely your pocketbook. I see nothing wrong in your friend pointing out the fact that you are spending a lot of time doing something that won't put food on the table. If you disagree, try proving him wrong. Can you show him how your go skills are making you better at something else?

[Yertle]

I don't claim to be a great business person but I will tell you a few things from go have definitely helped in my work life. The biggest is reading ahead, reading out the possibilities is very useful in business. Also thinking about how people are actually going to respond, not how you would like them to.

In general I think mental cross training is a good thing.

[HermanHiddema]

Recently I had a friend criticize me for devoting so much time to baduk, saying that instead I should devote more time to activities with greater potential for economic gain, such as investing. I would like to tell him that it is possible to learn from playing baduk some general lessons applicable to the world of business, but my friend is not a baduk player. How does one explain the link between baduk and business to one who is not familiar with the game, or at least make clear that baduk is not necessarily an idle pastime? Any help, great or small, will be greatly appreciated.

The only proper response is to criticize him for devoting so much time to investing, telling him that he should devote more time to activities with greater potential for enjoyment, such as baduk. I wouldn't want to let true friends live such sad shallow lives without at least attempting to help them get away from that destructive lifestyle.

[sybob]

There's lots to say about this.
But first, try to define investing.

What kind of investing?
For personal gain, for corporate financial gain, or for society, welfare and environment?

Your friend probably meant investing in financial terms, either for personal gain or corporate profit.
Then what field of investing does he (she) mean?

Private business is totally different than exchange listed companies. Equity investing is totally different from financing/fixed income. In both fields, the primary market is totally different from the secondary market (issuance versus trading). Options and the like are totally different than titles. Investing in foreign currencies or commodities is totally different than issueing green loans e.g.

Such question/discussion/topic is more or less comparable to the discussion if/how housewives/mothers have to be appreciated more, valued more, and actually been paid.

So, what does your friend mean?
Maybe he meant that you, being the intelligent go player you are, could earn more money if you use your time, energy, skills and talents differently, i.e. wishing you a better personal financial perspective?

That being said, I think a lot of aspects of go are worthwhile in business and finance. E.g. patience, handling stress, greediness, agressiveness and other psychological aspects like ego matters, strategy, territory, resources and most efficient allocation of resources, thinking about alternatives, counting, foreseeing counterpart moves, accepting both wins and losses, (business/game) focus, concentration, whole board game, exchange (territory vs influence, short term vs long term, entertainment and pastime vs actual results), sente vs gote, etc. etc. This Troy Anderson probably has more and better things to say than me. I see many parallels. Go is the universe. Go is business. Go is life. Find your way.

[Calvin Clark]

The only proper response is to criticize him for devoting so much time to investing, telling him that he should devote more time to activities with greater potential for enjoyment, such as baduk. I wouldn't want to let true friends live such sad shallow lives without at least attempting to help them get away from that destructive lifestyle.

It reminds me of the story of the Mexican fisherman and the businessman.

[tekesta]

It reminds me of the story of the Mexican fisherman and the businessman.

I've heard that one a few times. Makes me wonder why in "civilized society" we have to spend so much money for so little goods and services. The Mexican fisherman might not have had much money, but he was free to obtain the bare necessities of life. I sometimes think that money is an instrument of control, rather than just an instrument of commerce.

The great Roman philosopher Seneca once said, "It is not the man with too little, but rather the man desiring too much, that is poor."

I still think that Go is a game that can teach its devotees to manage their time and money as efficiently and realistically as possible.

[negapesuo]

I really don't see why Go and investing have to be exclusive. Plenty of businessmen enjoy tennis/golf/other hobbies, which are arguably more costly compared to Go. They become rather good at it too, for an amateur player.

[hyperpape]

I've heard that one a few times. Makes me wonder why in "civilized society" we have to spend so much money for so little goods and services. The Mexican fisherman might not have had much money, but he was free to obtain the bare necessities of life.

There is no way to say this that's not a little rude, but are you rich? Feel free not to answer, of course.

If you are rich enough, you already have the freedom to live that way. And if you're not, then why is your friend bugging you about investing? For most people of moderate means (and even a lot of people who have more than moderate means), the best investments are simple things like index funds. Actively investing is either a) a great way to lose money, or b) an incredibly difficult way of getting slightly better returns. And slightly better returns will only be worth the work if you have a lot of capital to begin with. Other ways of investing (like buying property and renting it out) often end up being disguised ways of working a second job.

[BlindGroup]

For most people of moderate means (and even a lot of people who have more than moderate means), the best investments are simple things like index funds. Actively investing is either a) a great way to lose money, or b) an incredibly difficult way of getting slightly better returns. And slightly better returns will only be worth the work if you have a lot of capital to begin with. Other ways of investing (like buying property and renting it out) often end up being disguised ways of working a second job.

The sad thing is that it rarely leads to better returns. Even hedge funds, with all of their expertise and advantages, can't consistently beat the standard S&P 500 Index Fund. This bet by Warren Buffet is one of my favorite examples: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/buffett ... rs-on.html. But there is a lot of finance research documenting this fact.

[sybob]

If you are rich enough, you already have the freedom to live that way.

This reminds me of a former colleague who once said: people who have time, don't have money (to spend it), and people who have money don't have the time to enjoy it.
Difficult to have it both ways.
Also, investing is a job, a specialty. Insert disclaimer.

[Kirgan]

Show your friend the following article:

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20141208000697 Game of go makes great businesspeople

"So could it be a coincidence that baduk is known to be the favorite pastime for many a well-known business tycoon in Korea.
The Korea Herald Investigative Team has delved deeper into the topic to learn about the superrich whose business acumen was partially shaped by this game of brains and strategy."