Here are some more games.
I cannot remember Zenith 6 won even a single game against Crazy Stone FE on my PC, but Zenith 7 does.
Intel i7-7700K@4.2GHz
NVIDIA GTX 1080
CSFE (30sec/move) – Zenith 7 (30sec/move)
Zenith 7 (30sec/move) – CSFE (30sec/move)
And someone ask for handicap games against CSFE 5d. Here are two games with different settings, this time placed on an Intel i7-6700HQ @ 2.6GHz.
CSFE (5d) – Zenith 7 (30sec/move)
For the second game I set Zenith 7 to 5sec per move. It used about 8 minutes in total. CS with 5d settings used about 1 minute in total. In this game CS evaluated the positions totally wrong, a very long time it didn’t see that whites center group was alive.
CSFE (5d) – Zenith 7 (5sec/move)
Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
-
Vargo
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:28 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 22 times
- Been thanked: 97 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Hi Bas,
We have similar hardware, and consistent results.
Very tentatively, with good CPU and gtx1080 it seems that :
Z7 >>> CSDL5d
AQ gpu >>>>> CSDL5d
Leela11 GPU >> Leela11
AQ gpu >> Leela11 GPU
Z7 > Leela11 GPU (but tartaric seems to strongly disagree on this one
)
That would be, according to CSDL ranking, something like :
Z7 8d
L11 gpu 7-8d
L11 5-6d
AQ gpu 10d
All these seem very strong, even if CSDL 5d is not really 5d.
I'm looking forward to a lot more games with different hardwares (mmmmh.... q30
maybe, thx )
We have similar hardware, and consistent results.
Very tentatively, with good CPU and gtx1080 it seems that :
Z7 >>> CSDL5d
AQ gpu >>>>> CSDL5d
Leela11 GPU >> Leela11
AQ gpu >> Leela11 GPU
Z7 > Leela11 GPU (but tartaric seems to strongly disagree on this one
)That would be, according to CSDL ranking, something like :
Z7 8d
L11 gpu 7-8d
L11 5-6d
AQ gpu 10d
All these seem very strong, even if CSDL 5d is not really 5d.
I'm looking forward to a lot more games with different hardwares (mmmmh.... q30
maybe, thx )-
Gomoto
- Gosei
- Posts: 1733
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:56 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Location: Earth
- Has thanked: 621 times
- Been thanked: 310 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Zenith Go 7 vs Leela 11 GPU (Second Game)
Intel 2500k @ 4,2 Ghz vs Nvidia 1080 Ti
1 : 0
30 sec. p. move vs 20 min. p. game
(Total Score 1:1)
Zenith Go 7 vs Leela 11 GPU (First Game)
Intel 2500k @ 4,2 Ghz vs Nvidia 1080 Ti
0 : 1
20 sec. p. move vs 20 min. p. game
Big KO decides this one. Quite interesting, Zen 7 still thinks it is leading at the start of the Ko fight (Leela 11 is self assured too). But if you let Zen analyze a little longer,
Intel 2500k @ 4,2 Ghz vs Nvidia 1080 Ti
1 : 0
30 sec. p. move vs 20 min. p. game
(Total Score 1:1)
Zenith Go 7 vs Leela 11 GPU (First Game)
Intel 2500k @ 4,2 Ghz vs Nvidia 1080 Ti
0 : 1
20 sec. p. move vs 20 min. p. game
Big KO decides this one. Quite interesting, Zen 7 still thinks it is leading at the start of the Ko fight (Leela 11 is self assured too). But if you let Zen analyze a little longer,
-
johnsmith
- Lives with ko
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:55 am
- Rank: KGS 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 47 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Can you also attach .zgf files? It seems to me that in the first game Zen would've won if it started playing that ko from the other side (m1). Maybe it needed extra 10 seconds 
Zen seems to be much stronger on 30 sec or 60 sec and more...
Zen seems to be much stronger on 30 sec or 60 sec and more...
-
johnsmith
- Lives with ko
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:55 am
- Rank: KGS 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 47 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
ZEN HAD BEATEN LEELA ON 2 STONES.
Zen killed big Leela's group in a spectacular fashion, although he didn't have to. Zen managed to turn the game around in 160 moves, after which it was very easy.
Zen: Max time per move was 2 minutes. Average spent time per move was 50 seconds. Running mid class Intel i5 CPU.
Leela: "Running 4 (out of 16) threads on a Ryzen 1700 CPU and 1080 Ti GPU" (RoyalLeela on OGS, thanks to roy7).
Attached are clean sgf, Leela's evaluation sgf, and Zen's zgf with evaluations and thinking times.
Edit: Since zgf can't be uploaded, here's a link to zgf (expires after 7 days): https://we.tl/ERCKCl4DyT (it can be viewed through any text editor)
Zen killed big Leela's group in a spectacular fashion, although he didn't have to. Zen managed to turn the game around in 160 moves, after which it was very easy.
Zen: Max time per move was 2 minutes. Average spent time per move was 50 seconds. Running mid class Intel i5 CPU.
Leela: "Running 4 (out of 16) threads on a Ryzen 1700 CPU and 1080 Ti GPU" (RoyalLeela on OGS, thanks to roy7).
Attached are clean sgf, Leela's evaluation sgf, and Zen's zgf with evaluations and thinking times.
Edit: Since zgf can't be uploaded, here's a link to zgf (expires after 7 days): https://we.tl/ERCKCl4DyT (it can be viewed through any text editor)
- Attachments
-
- Zen vs Leela (Leela's evaluations).sgf
- (14.76 KiB) Downloaded 644 times
-
- Zen vs Leela (clean sgf).sgf
- (1.23 KiB) Downloaded 683 times
-
Bas
- Beginner
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:05 am
- Rank: EGD 1k
- GD Posts: 0
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Didn’t you say your hardware is to weak for AQ? Why?
I planed to play some test games between Zenith and AQ, but my 1080 is weaker than your 1080TI.
Nevertheless I don’t like AQ’s style I think. It played a lot of useless ataris in the two games I played against it. At least I lost my interest in AQ, but maybe I should give it a second chance.
Edit: Oh, I see … you played against RoyalLeela.
I planed to play some test games between Zenith and AQ, but my 1080 is weaker than your 1080TI.
Nevertheless I don’t like AQ’s style I think. It played a lot of useless ataris in the two games I played against it. At least I lost my interest in AQ, but maybe I should give it a second chance.
Edit: Oh, I see … you played against RoyalLeela.
-
johnsmith
- Lives with ko
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:55 am
- Rank: KGS 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 47 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Maybe I didn't explain very well but 1080TI is not my hardware, it belongs to Roy who runs Leela on OGS.Bas wrote:Didn’t you say your hardware is to weak for AQ? Why?
I planed to play some test games between Zenith and AQ, but my 1080 is weaker than your 1080TI.
Nevertheless I don’t like AQ’s style I think. It played a lot of useless ataris in the two games I played against it. At least I lost my interest in AQ, but maybe I should give it a second chance.
Edit: Oh, I see … you played against RoyalLeela.
And because I don't have GPU and AQ is known to play poorly without GPU. That's the catch.
-
Uberdude
- Judan
- Posts: 6727
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
- Rank: UK 4 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Uberdude 4d
- OGS: Uberdude 7d
- Location: Cambridge, UK
- Has thanked: 436 times
- Been thanked: 3718 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Could I please ask someone with a decent computer what Zen/Leela/AQ other strong bots think (win % and does recent Leela also give points lead estimate?) of this position from a recent game by Iyama Yuta (you can click the diagram to download sgf). 6.5 komi, black has 1 capture and white none if it's not Chinese scoring so you need to know. Black resigned at this position so I'd like to know how bad the bots think it is for him and compare to my human positional judgement at forum/viewtopic.php?p=225078#p225078 where I said white leads by 3.5 points, but with an estimated error of 5-10 points.
-
pookpooi
- Lives in sente
- Posts: 727
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:26 pm
- GD Posts: 10
- Has thanked: 44 times
- Been thanked: 218 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Why ask Zen when you can ask FineArt
Move 124 B has 38.5% winrate 黑棋无功而返
Move 117 W has 67.6% winrate
Move 111 W has 68.3% winrate 白棋明显好下
Move 109 W has 66.1% winrate 黑棋现在紧张了
Move 99 W has 56.7% winrate
Move 91 B has 61.0% winrate 这样白棋大龙有点危险啊
Move 86 B has 57.9% winrate 黑棋霸王硬上弓 还是白棋危险
Move 80 B has 57.7% winrate 白棋远去了
Move 72 B has 57.8% winrate 黑棋露骨的杀棋
Move 50 B has 43.9% winrate 白棋实地比较多
Move 46 B has 42.7% winrate
Move 41 W has 58.4% winrate 喜欢白棋
Move 38 B has 46.2% winrate 大乱斗
Move 33 W has 57.8% winrate 白棋凶险异常啊
Move 32 B has 46.2% winrate
Move 31 W has 54.2% winrate 感觉白棋不错啊
And so on... you don't need opening sequence winrate right?
Move 124 B has 38.5% winrate 黑棋无功而返
Move 117 W has 67.6% winrate
Move 111 W has 68.3% winrate 白棋明显好下
Move 109 W has 66.1% winrate 黑棋现在紧张了
Move 99 W has 56.7% winrate
Move 91 B has 61.0% winrate 这样白棋大龙有点危险啊
Move 86 B has 57.9% winrate 黑棋霸王硬上弓 还是白棋危险
Move 80 B has 57.7% winrate 白棋远去了
Move 72 B has 57.8% winrate 黑棋露骨的杀棋
Move 50 B has 43.9% winrate 白棋实地比较多
Move 46 B has 42.7% winrate
Move 41 W has 58.4% winrate 喜欢白棋
Move 38 B has 46.2% winrate 大乱斗
Move 33 W has 57.8% winrate 白棋凶险异常啊
Move 32 B has 46.2% winrate
Move 31 W has 54.2% winrate 感觉白棋不错啊
And so on... you don't need opening sequence winrate right?
-
Uberdude
- Judan
- Posts: 6727
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
- Rank: UK 4 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Uberdude 4d
- OGS: Uberdude 7d
- Location: Cambridge, UK
- Has thanked: 436 times
- Been thanked: 3718 times
-
johnsmith
- Lives with ko
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:55 am
- Rank: KGS 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 47 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
Zen would play H18 and after these upper exchanges suggests E6, leaving right side as it is. This variation leads to White 57%.
I also analyzed your sequence at move 79 as well as current position.
Edit: I updated the sgf with comparison between Zen and FineArt. Sometimes they totaly agree, and sometimes they disagree a bit. Zen thinks B's last move was a huge mistake. Which may explain why B resigned?
I also analyzed your sequence at move 79 as well as current position.
Thanks! Game between Ke Jie and Iyama is on on Fox. FineArt says W has a lead of 54.4% after the first move.pookpooi wrote:Why ask Zen when you can ask FineArt
Edit: I updated the sgf with comparison between Zen and FineArt. Sometimes they totaly agree, and sometimes they disagree a bit. Zen thinks B's last move was a huge mistake. Which may explain why B resigned?
- Attachments
-
- Iyama Yuuta analyzed.sgf
- (2.86 KiB) Downloaded 677 times
Last edited by johnsmith on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
pookpooi
- Lives in sente
- Posts: 727
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:26 pm
- GD Posts: 10
- Has thanked: 44 times
- Been thanked: 218 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
But wait! FineArt can also show its sequence too!!!
- Attachments
-
- [杨鼎新]vs[井山裕太]2017111348749395.sgf
- (4.9 KiB) Downloaded 721 times
-
pookpooi
- Lives in sente
- Posts: 727
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:26 pm
- GD Posts: 10
- Has thanked: 44 times
- Been thanked: 218 times
Re: Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen
At least it's better than relay room in Tygem which is about 30-40 moves on the game that isn't happen yet. Look like the broadcaster has too much free time or just can't wait for the actual game.johnsmith wrote:Thanks! Game between Ke Jie and Iyama is on on Fox. FineArt says W has a lead of 54.4% after the first move
That aside, I try to dig if there's some game that FineArt comment on move 0 so we'll know how it think about komi. The 54.4% winrate for white come from black play 3-4 opening so we can't use this number