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 Post subject: Level on pandanet
Post #1 Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:48 am 
Beginner

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Rank: 16 kuy
IGS: BC
Hi there.
I started a new account and read I had to play 20 rated games in order to get a rating and so I did. Now it puts me at BC even though I’won 25/17 and some of them were 14, 15 and 16 kuy.
I put myself around 16-15 kuy, but what i don’t understand is why after playing 20+ games as 17? I now start as BC.
Can anyone elaborate?
Kind regards

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #2 Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:55 pm 
Lives in gote

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Maybe there are fewer games rated than you actually think. Take look at the rules.

Code:
Rating games: Games with opponents with certified ranks are rating games.
However, the following games are excluded.

Games on boards other than 19×19
Games of less than two moves
Games with professionals (whose ranks have “p” attached)
Games with players in Beginners Class
Games with opponents more than three ranks different in strength (games in which the handicap is correct for a difference of three ranks or less will be rated).
Games in the “free play room”, the room for practice games with robots
Pair Go games

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #3 Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:23 pm 
Beginner

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Rank: 16 kuy
IGS: BC
None of the exceptions has been my case

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #4 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:42 am 
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Quote:
In the Beginners Class, players are promoted to 17k after five wins regardless of their number of losses.
Conversely, when 17k drops below the demotion line, they are demoted to Beginners Class.


Maybe this is your case. Just win 5 games to get back to 17k.

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #5 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:24 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: KGS 1k EGF 2k
KGS: Schachus12
My take is that Pandanet has trouble with the ?-ranks and doesnt calculate the first rank well.
I myself had started with an 8k? rank and played some games but not 20, with pretty even results. Then I stopped. Some month later I was already stronger than 8k and resumed playing. I won the first 3 or 4 of those games after the break to finish the 20 games with a positive score(I think 11:9, but maybe it was 12:8), and for some reason the rank system still decided to rank me down to 9k. This was pretty annoying as even on 8k I now felt like a sandbagger, having improved since chosing 8k as starting rank...

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #6 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:12 am 
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Well, here's another data point consistent with Schachus: I just went 11-9 as a provisional 2d (each game I was ranked as a provisional 2d). My assigned rank after going 11-9 is 1d.

Does anyone have any insight on what record is required after 20 games in order to actually be ranked at your provisional ranking? I will need to go 15-0 or something as a 1d and 1d+ to get back to 2d now. Seems more worth it (assuming I stick with IGS) to just remake a 2d account and go for 12-8 (or is it 13-7? 14-6?) or something.

I guess this feature of IGS is to discourage people from constantly making accounts at higher levels (since new accounts, especially if they're reaching too high, arguably inflate everyone's ranking over time--+50 points if you beat a provisional account while no penalty for losing) but it still strikes me as counterproductive to accurate ranking on the whole.

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #7 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:54 pm 
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IGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: BlindGroup
I've created a new account in the last few months. I guessed the rank at 4k initially. I think the way the system works is that it re-evaluates your provisional rank every five games. I won 4 of 5 at 4k, but then won only 3 of 5, 1 of 5, and 1 of 5 at 3k provisional. So, it kicked me out at 4k. That seemed reasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #8 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:02 pm 
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BlindGroup wrote:
I've created a new account in the last few months. I guessed the rank at 4k initially. I think the way the system works is that it re-evaluates your provisional rank every five games. I won 4 of 5 at 4k, but then won only 3 of 5, 1 of 5, and 1 of 5 at 3k provisional. So, it kicked me out at 4k. That seemed reasonable.


That does seem reasonable, but to be clear, I never ranked up or down during my 20-game stretch: I went 11-9 at the exact same provisional rank, only to be ranked down after. (Also to be clear, it's not as though I ended on a losing streak; I think [edit: confirmed] my record over the last 5 games was 3-2). So, IMO, something else is going on here.

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 Post subject: Re: Level on pandanet
Post #9 Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:59 am 
Dies with sente

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Location: NC, USA
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Nappe wrote:
Hi there.
I started a new account and read I had to play 20 rated games in order to get a rating and so I did. Now it puts me at BC even though I’won 25/17 and some of them were 14, 15 and 16 kuy.
I put myself around 16-15 kuy, but what i don’t understand is why after playing 20+ games as 17? I now start as BC.
Can anyone elaborate?
Kind regards


Yes, IGS updates your rank every 5 games. IGS has trouble estimating your strength when you play games against unranked players. Their ranking seemed pretty logical to me.
What is your IDS pandanet account? I might able to look at your game history and give you a better opinion of what is going on.
Once you drop to BC, you need to win 5 times to get back to 17k. When you are BC, losses don't matter. So you get back to 17K even with a record 5 wins and 20 losses.

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