Pawn to the dark side

[Gomoto]

Lichess also provides you with nice analytics in which openings or positions you blunder most, how you perform against weaker and stronger players, etc.

It does not yet compare if you are a better chess player of go player.

[Gomoto]

While we have superhuman bots, there still seems to be a good deal of uncertainty about their judgement of individual moves. They have nothing near the accuracy of top chess engines.

Oh their accuracy is fine (in relation to their reading depth). There is just no certainty in go, because you can up the complexity ad libidum.


[Edit: Especially it is fine enough to detect all of MY blunders ]

[Kirby]

I'm still on a hiatus with go, but it'd be good to play another thinking game. Any other noob want to play me sometime? I haven't played a game since the mid-90s, and would say that I'm totally beginner level. I know the rules, and that's about it.

[EdLee]

Kirby, are you referring to chess ?
Don't suppose we can rig the Go diagram code here for chess.
But we can screenshot. Please see PM.

[Kirby]

Kirby, are you referring to chess ?
Don't suppose we can rig the Go diagram code here for chess.
But we can screenshot. Please see PM.

Yes, chess. I'd be happy to play. I'm sure it'll provide entertainment to the more experienced chess players here. Malkovich chess?

I'll look into the diagram idea...

[Kirby]

I guess we could use this thing:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-diagram-generator.php

Or this one, which generates a unique URL. I guess we could take previous positions more easily that way:
http://www.jinchess.com/chessboard/composer/

[EdLee]

Kirby, I'll be completely old-school and just use screenshots.
Too bad my ancient set (from Borders!) is buried somewhere in the garage, and missing a pawn or two. Just some iOS app screenshots.
(more fun than algebraic)
(Ugh. iOS gives a .png file; forum complains it's not jpg... )

[Kirby]

Kirby, I'll be completely old-school and just use screenshots.
Too bad my ancient set (from Borders!) is buried somewhere in the garage, and missing a pawn or two. Just some iOS app screenshots.

OK. I guess you can start the thread - probably in the Off Topic forum. White goes first in chess, right?

[EdLee]

Kirby, yes, starts. If daal minds we can move, later.

Ah! If I don't crop, L19 takes it!

IMG_0784.PNG (117.64 KiB) Viewed 14459 times

[daal]

Kirby, yes, starts. If daal minds we can move, later.

While I am amused that I've inspired other go players to play a game of chess, I would appreciate it if you did it in a separate thread - I think there's still more to talk about here.

[Kirby]

Sounds like a plan. I didn't initially intend to do something on L19 - I meant to play on a server or something with someone I knew from the forums.

We could make an off topic thread on L19 to play like a Malkovich like game, but maybe that would be a turnoff to go players on a go forum

Not really sure - just interested in playing someone I know, since I'm a total noob.

[EdLee]

daal, Thanks.

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[daal]

Just played my first game today on Chess.com. After the game, I was offered the opportunity to have my game analyzed by a computer. I chose a fast analysis - it took one minute, and it pointed out which moves were inaccuracies, mistakes or blunders. For each error, it showed a better move and a continuation. I could click the variation and follow it on the board (Edit: apparently getting the continuations is a premium feature, but still...). There was also a graph showing who was ahead during the game, so you could really tell where the tide turned.

In comparison it seems that go servers have a lot of room for improvement.

You should check out the feature en.lichess.org has: after your game, you can get a computer analysis like in Chess.com, and then click a button 'Learn from my Mistakes'. The computer then takes you to each position where you made a blunder or a mistake, and asks you to find a better move. You can then also do this from the opponents side as well. Basically, you can turn your game into a small set of chess problems afterwards for you to solve and learn from.

I would pay a small monthly subscription to have a Go server that could turn my game into a series of tsumego afterwards to help me learn from my mistakes. It's a really great feature!

I just tried this out. It is indeed a great feature. I particularly liked that during the learn-from-your-mistakes part - the computer would let me try and find a better move for one of my bad ones, and after my attempt it would evaluate it and then, nodding it's head sadly, would say: "you can do better."

I suppose that what's keeping go servers from implementing such a feature is that:

a) It takes longer - stockfish had analysed the whole chess game in about a minute.
b) It requires more resources - leela makes my computer go red in the face. It would probably be quite a burden on a server to handle hundreds of such requests. Or not?
c) Go is less clear cut. This one is up for discussion. Stockfish presents its analysis verbally. It considers a move to be either a blunder, a mistake, an inaccuracy or good enough (I haven't yet seen it praise any of my moves). I guess a drop in winrate by x points enough to call a move in go a blunder, but what about moves that are less than x? Are they wrong? Does it depend on the level of the opponent? For example, if I make a move that will result in a winning position for my opponent 20 moves down the line assuming perfect play, is it still a bad move?
d) Licensing?

[Uberdude]

... Basically, you can turn your game into a small set of chess problems afterwards for you to solve and learn from.

I would pay a small monthly subscription to have a Go server that could turn my game into a series of tsumego afterwards to help me learn from my mistakes. It's a really great feature!

Someone just made a start of something like this for go: http://racetam.com/lzproblems/.

[daal]

... Basically, you can turn your game into a small set of chess problems afterwards for you to solve and learn from.

I would pay a small monthly subscription to have a Go server that could turn my game into a series of tsumego afterwards to help me learn from my mistakes. It's a really great feature!

Someone just made a start of something like this for go: http://racetam.com/lzproblems/.

Nice to hear! I guess go is not that far behind.